mr. cartwright -- >> mr. sec low, i want to say this. i understand why she invoked her fifth amendment privilege. i don't understand why the hell the president of the united states would prejudge an investigation. >> i don't either. >> before any of your clients were interviewed, before either of these two victims -- i know you don't like that word, but i'm using it in the criminal sense of the word, before either of these two victims were interviewed. he has gone on national television. he has prejudged the investigation and in my judgment has compromised the department of justice which leads me to this question, mr. sec low. there is the option, when you have a compromised investigation and a chief executive who has prejudged the outcome before the jury has even gotten all the evidence, he's got an option of appointing a special counsel, right? >> yes, he does. >> the special counsel regulation says if there's extraordinary circumstances that furthers the public interest. can you think of anything more extraordinary than government tar

mr. cartwright? >> thank you, mr. chairman. so i have sat through today's hearing and first of all, i want to say i appreciate all of you coming. your viewpoint is appreciated. understood. i wish we had opposing viewpoints today for a fuller discussion, but that doesn't discount the value of your viewpoint. one thing i wanted the raise was i think one or of you have brought up the idea that people have said that there's no evidence of wrongdoing at the irs. there's no evidence of corruption or however you want to say it. and that that is inappropriate because the investigation is ongoing. which one of you said something like that? >> i did. >> professor -- >> mr. j is fine. >> it's a good point. it's something that we hear both ways. we as americans are used to tv reporters putting microphones in prosecutors' faces and investigators' faces, police chiefs' faces, asking for details of an investigation, and what is the phrase that they all intone always? i can't comment on an ongoing investigation. and as americans, we understand

mr. cartwright: certainly. mr. pocan: what you just said, talking about the buying power, putting that much money back into the economy. i look at it this way. if you're someone who is making minimum wage and you get your wage increased to about $10.10. that extra money is not going into a savings account or something in the future. you're probably going to be buying things right now. you're going to buy a sofa maybe. the average c.e.o. now makes 354 times when the average worker makes. back in the late 1980's it was 40-1 ratio. now it's 354 times. when we put money into an average low-wage worker, that money goes immediately into the economy. they can buy a sofa. but when the gains that we've had in this country have gone largely to the top executives, the top 1%, top 1% and 2%, how many sofas can you buy at that rate and how does that affect the economy? do you have any idea how many sofas you could buy if you're a c.e.o. to try to keep up with this and help stimulate the economy? mr. cartwright: if stacked end t

mr. cartwright -- >> mr. sec low, i want to say this. i understand why she invoked her fifth amendment privilege. i don't understand why the hell the president of the united states would prejudge an investigation. >> i don't either. >> before any of your clients were interviewed, before either of these two victims -- i know you don't like that word, but i'm using it in the criminal sense of the word, before either of these two victims were interviewed. he has gone on national television. he has prejudged the investigation and in my judgment has compromised the department of justice which leads me to this question, mr. sec low. there is the option, when you have a compromised investigation and a chief executive who has prejudged the outcome before the jury has even gotten all the evidence, he's got an option of appointing a special counsel, right? >> yes, he does. >> the special counsel regulation says if there's extraordinary circumstances that furthers the public interest. can you think of anything more extraordinary than government tar

mr. cartwright. >> thank you, mr. chairman. as i have noted in previous hearings of this committee, i also am deeply troubled regarding irs employees improper handling of application for tax exempt status. a handling that pervades the american political spectrum. it includes obviously right wing groups and also left wing groups. and we'll talk about that in a moment. since the chairman has just raised it, including allegations about attorney barbara wasserman. part of the premise of this hearing is that the witnesses have concerns about the department of justice's investigation of the irs for the improper treatment of tax excemt organizations. has, quote, the appearance of substantial and material conflict of interest, end quote. he has made that claim because a career prosecutor who is one of at least 13 doj and fbi employees involved in the investigation made political donations to the dnc and the president's campaign. i'm here to tell you we have consulted with legal experts. they have flatly rejected chairman jordan's inter

mr. cartwright, for four minutes. the chair: the gentleman from pennsylvania is recognized for four minutes. mr. cartwright: thank you, madam chairman. this bill is being brought to the floor during this week that has been labeled stop government abuse week. i'm here to say this is a bill that has some stopping power all right. it would stop the government from protecting our health and safety by bringing the regulatory process to a grinding halt. i want to address title 1 of this anti-regulatory package right now. it includes the tax of the all economic regulations are transparent act. this legislation, madam chair woman is unnecessarily burdensome for agencies. agencies are already required to provide status updates twice a year on their plans for proposing and finalizing rules pursuant to the regulatory flexibility act and executive order 12866. this legislation would require agencies to report monthly. they are already required to report twice a year. this takes them to monthly. it's incredibly burdensome on agenc

mr. cartwright. >> thank you, mr. chairman. as i have noted in previous hearings of this committee, i also am deeply troubled regarding irs employees improper handling of application for tax exempt status. a handling that pervades the american political spectrum. it includes obviously right wing groups and also left wing groups. and we'll talk about that in a moment. since the chairman has just raised it, including allegations about attorney barbara wasserman. part of the premise of this hearing is that the witnesses have concerns about the department of justice's investigation of the irs for the improper treatment of tax excemt organizations. has, quote, the appearance of substantial and material conflict of interest, end quote. he has made that claim because a career prosecutor who is one of at least 13 doj and fbi employees involved in the investigation made political donations to the dnc and the president's campaign. i'm here to tell you we have consulted with legal experts. they have flatly rejected chairman jordan's inter

mr. cartwright: i thank mr. grijalva.e today to express my opposition to h.r. 2954 mistitled public access and lands improvement act rather than improving our nation's lands, this bill negatively affects our land management decisions and conveys or disposes of federal lands improperly and rewrites grazing policy and it waives numerous environmental laws like the natural environmental policy act, the wilderness act and endangered species act. h.r. 2954 contains a number of provisions that would undermine the responsible balance of interests and considerations in the stewardship of our nation's lands and our nation's resources. included in the myriad of poor land management provisions that this bill puts together is language that gives away thousands of acres of federal land in florida, alaska and nevada, valued at millions of dollars without a transparent public planning process. when the federal government gives away land we do so with certain understandings of how it will be used. it is just wrong to change the rules wit

mr. cartwright? >> thank you, mr. chairman. so i have sat through today's hearing and first of all, i want to say i appreciate all of you coming. your viewpoint is appreciated. understood. i wish we had opposing viewpoints today for a fuller discussion, but that doesn't discount the value of your viewpoint. one thing i wanted the raise was i think one or of you have brought up the idea that people have said that there's no evidence of wrongdoing at the irs. there's no evidence of corruption or however you want to say it. and that that is inappropriate because the investigation is ongoing. which one of you said something like that? >> i did. >> professor -- >> mr. j is fine. >> it's a good point. it's something that we hear both ways. we as americans are used to tv reporters putting microphones in prosecutors' faces and investigators' faces, police chiefs' faces, asking for details of an investigation, and what is the phrase that they all intone always? i can't comment on an ongoing investigation. and as americans, we understand

mr. cartwright. when the founders put together the first amendment, and all the rights contained, freedom of religion, press, assembly, speech, when they talk about freedom of speech, the most important aspect of freedom of speech is your right to political speech. your right to criticize your government. and that is the very thing that the irs attacked them and that is why this hearing and the subject is so important come and that is what i am pleased to have the witnesses we have today. with that i will yield to the ranking member, mr. cartwright. you, mr. chairman. as i have noted in previous hearings of this committee, i also am deeply troubled regarding irs employees' improper handling of applications for tax-exempt pervades handling that the american political spectrum and includes obviously right- wing groups and also left-wing groups, and we will talk about that in a moment. since the chairman has just raised it, including allegations about the attorney, i want to address that right away. art