mr. chinako is a consulting experts. he could speak to that issue. he could speak to how is this -- it is the sheriff should be treated under his own disclinary section. chiel landstone is being offered as a law enforcement officer who teaches an ethics course at the professional association for law enforcement. and law enforcement and ethics for chiefs. this is germane and he has the expertise to give it. chairperson hur: we have heard from mr. keith earlier. >> she is here on this list because she can offer important testimony about was this just about a pension on the arm? was this just about a decision to turn the band around and not return to the restaurateur's of the more significant. this premium not about a plea deal. they're about the actual conduct and what the context means in terms of the public official, the acts of the public official and the relationship between those facts and public official's petition. -- position. we need to be able to explain his conduct and ms. lemmon was being offered in the criminal case, would have gone and se