mr. secretary concannon, i want to thank you for your testimony. again, going back to what i just said, house republicans have cut $127 billion out of this program. that means that they would eliminate food assistance to some 8 million people, according to the center on budget and policies. mr. concannon, according to your agency's data, nearly half of the s.n.a.p. beneficiaries are under the age of 18. is that right? >> right. >> i want to go back for a moment. there's something the children, there's something that the chairman, he didn't give you a chance to answer it but i think i know what you were trying to get to. sometimes you'll have a store that is debarred. this goes with the own er. is that right? >> that is correct, sir. >> sort of like when i was practicing law if somebody, for example, had a liquor license, and they were a bad actor, they were then thrown out or sold it or whatever. then the new person comes in the whole -- that's like a new situation. is that right? >> correct. >> some of the scripps article was about folks who had b

mr. concannon's operation could do a better job of debarment and suspension, correct? >> that's correct. >> mr. concannon, could you address that, in my final question. >> in your second overrun minute. >> i'm sorry, mr. chairman. >> go ahead, please. >> thank you. >> i mentioned earlier that we believe that the approach we take of moving people out of the program immediately is a more effective way. to most of the beneficiaries, the stores we're concerned with don't do other business with the federal government. even to cover that, we have been working with the general service administration to have these stores or companies put on the excluded parties list system, which will prevent them from being able to participate with other government programs. now, we're also -- we're continuing to have dialogue with the office of the attorney general to see if there are ways we can do both. aversion to the debarment process, it's that it slows it down. we like the authority we have right now. when we find that a store has misled us about their business relationships, or debarr

mr. concannon. can you explain to me what kind of quality control system the staff program uses to ensure that only people are truly eligible for s.n.a.p. are actually receiving it? what do you have in place to detect it? >> thank you very much. as was mentioned at the outset, iowa state health and human services director for 25 years in three states, and of all of the federal and state benefit programs that are administered, the food nutrition service, long preceding my time here, put the particular emphasis on what is referred to as a quality control area, many people need to be eligible for the programs so they have to demonstrate in fact their eligibility by virtue of pay stubs or other sources of information. they also have, we have to make sure that when i present myself, i am who i say i am. and that qc program, that error rate has gone from historically up in the eight to 9% range down to below 4%. and that has been achieved by encouraging states to use multiple databases. so for example, in

mr. concannon, could you address that come in my final question? >> as i speak in your second overrun minute. go ahead, please. >> i mentioned earlier that we believe that the approach that we take of moving people out of the program immediately is a more effective way, and two, most of the beneficiaries, stores i should say that we're concerned with, don't do other business with the federal government. but even to cover that, we have been working with the general service administration to have these stores or companies put on the excluded parties list system, which will prevent them from being able to participate with other governments, government programs but we're also, we continue that dialogue with the office of the attorney general to see if there are ways we can do both. our desire, we will have an aversion to the debarment process. it's that it slows it down. and we like the authority we have right now. when we find that a store has misled us about their business relationships, or being debarred before, we can take them out of the program.

mr. concannon. can you explain to me what kind of quality control system the staff program uses to ensure that only people are truly eligible for s.n.a.p. are actually receiving it? what do you have in place to detect it? >> thank you very much. as was mentioned at the outset, iowa state health and human services director for 25 years in three states, and of all of the federal and state benefit programs that are administered, the food nutrition service, long preceding my time here, put the particular emphasis on what is referred to as a quality control area, many people need to be eligible for the programs so they have to demonstrate in fact their eligibility by virtue of pay stubs or other sources of information. they also have, we have to make sure that when i present myself, i am who i say i am. and that qc program, that error rate has gone from historically up in the eight to 9% range down to below 4%. and that has been achieved by encouraging states to use multiple databases. so for example, in

mr. concannon you're continually working on this and your numbers are keeping it down. we need to do it across the board. we can't allow it to happen. the focus here, you think you have it down below 4%, maybe as low as 1%. is that correct? you're trying to get the new permutations of how people might defraud. you have a new website. >> we have a new website set up a month ago. later in the spring will be promulgating regulations that will increase financial responsibilities when a store is taken out of the program and sold to a new owner i've been interested in increasing financial responsibilities, it's a cost of doing business, flip the store. we continue to add layers. >> you had an issue with facebook and craigslist, how did you attack that. >> we did. we notified and that's what the inspector general was talking about new types of fraud, several examples that way recently. we've written to craigslist, some of the other social media sites but we've also amended our regulation that even the simple intent, expressed intent to sell benefits constitutes a violation. we

mr. concannon. you explain to me what kind of quality control system the staff program uses to ensure that only people are truly eligible for s.n.a.p. are actually receiving it? what do you have in place to detect it? >> thank you very much. as was mentioned at the outset, iowa state health and human services director for 25 years in three states, and of all of the federal and state benefit programs that are administered, the food nutrition service, long preceding my time here, put the particular emphasis on what is referred to as a quality control area, many people need to be eligible for the programs so they have to demonstrate in fact their eligibility by virtue of pay stubs or other sources of information. they also have, we have to make sure that when i present myself, i am who i say i am. and that qc program, that error rate has gone from historically up in the eight to 9% range down to below 4%. and that has been achieved by encouraging states to use multiple databases. so for example, in the