mr. cosgriff, and mr. yurek, your saying that there is need for reform but you're not claiming that there is a desire to jettison energy efficiency standards, are you? mr. mcguire: not at all. we're supporters of the program. smim mr. shimkus: i'm going to go quickly. mr. cosgriff: absolutely not. mr. yurek: no. mr. shimkus: this is an mp example where we are -- this is an example of where we can work together to get some sensible changes to effect folks like the narrative that i provided earlier today. there is a trap that people do fall into from big federal agencies and the rolling out of regs and as the fluorescent light bulb case, you get caught in a trap. you don't want to miss a cycle of putting a product on the shelves. because for a small company hat could be deadly. so -- and, ms. normal, did you mention in the discussion -- nom, you did mention in the discussion -- noll, you did mention in the discussion with my colleague, mr. rush, the confusing thing is we're not talking from a baseline of fam

mr. cosgriff and mr. yurek, you're saying there's a need for some reform, but you're not claiming that there's a desire to jettison energy efficiency standards, are you? >> no, not at all. we're supporters of the program. >> let me -- i'm going to go quickly. mr. cosgriff in >> absolutely not. >> mr. yurek? >> no. >> so this is an example where we really can work together to get some sensible changes to affect folks like the narrative that i provided earlier today. there is that trap that people do fall into from big federal agencies and the rolling out of regs and, as the fluorescent light bulb case, mr. cosgrove, they get caught in a trap and you don't want to miss a cycle of putting a product on the shelves because for a small company, that could be deadly. and ms. noll, you did mention in the discussion with my colleague mr. rush that we should -- the confusing thing is we're not talking from a baseline of families. what is a family? what is a cost? i think ms. miller mentioned it. her cost and a two-

mr. cosgriff and mr. yurek, you're saying there's a need for some reform, but you're not claiming that there's a desire to jettison energy efficiency standards, are you? >> no, not at all. we're supporters of the program. >> okay. let me -- i'm going to go quickly, so mr. cosgriff? >> absolutely not. >> mr. yurek? >> no. >> so this is an example where we really can work together to get some sensible changes to affect folks like the narrative that i provided earlier today. there is that trap that people do fall into from big federal agencies and the rolling out of regs and, as the fluorescent light bulb case, mr. cosgriff, they get caught in a trap and you don't want to miss a cycle of putting a product on the shelves because for a small company, that could be deadly. so, and miss noll, you did mention in the discussion with my colleague, mr. rush, that we should -- the confusing thing is we're not talking from a baseline of families. what is a family? what is a cost? i think ms. miller mentioned it. her c

mr. cosgriff. at this time our next witness is mr. tom mast eckman, director of the northwest tower and conservation council. thanks for being with us york ur recognized for five minutes. mr. eckman: thank you, mr. chairman, minority leader rush. i'm director of power planning for the northwest power and conservation council. i'll start with a quick thumbnail of who we are since there are no northwest delegates here, i thought it might be important to know why i'm here representing the northwest. the northwest power and conservation council was established under congressional authorize igs under the congressional act 1980, public law 506-91. we are an interstate compact, authorized by you folks here in congress to do power planning for the northwest. we, for the states of oregon, washington, idaho and western montana we produce a 0-year forecast of needs and resource plan to meet those needs for electricity. and our statutory requirement is that we are to treat energy efficiency as one of the resources we can rely on to meet those nee

mr. cosgriff? >> and to mr. yurek's point following up a little bit, when you're sitting around a table talking about technical things you better have the technical chops to have that conversation. and so in this highly quantified algorithm that d.o.e. consultants use, i'd like to see inside of that. we have mathematicians. i don't understand why we can't sigh wh see what key assumptions are and how they play inside the model and run through the pewtut comp. one of the things we've learned over the last four years i think is this incoming tide has raised all the boats. let's do it in a scientific way as possible. >> sorry, gentle mapman's time expired. got votes coming up. i recognize the gentleman from missouri, mr. long, for five minutes. >> thank you. mr. mcguire, could you recommend to me what type of hairdryer would be the best to purchase for my dishwasher so i can dry my dishes whenever the cycle is through? >> ill provide that for the record. >> my dishes aren't feeling the burn as they once did. mr. cos