mr. cosgrove? >> and to mr. yurek's point following up a little bit, when you're sitting around a table talking about technical things you better have the technical chops to have that conversation. so in this highly quantified algorithm that asrac and d.o.e. consultants are using i'd like to see inside that. we have mathematicians. we can figure it out. i don't understand why we can't see what the key assumptions are and how those assumptions play inside the model they built and run through the computer. one of the things we've learned over the last 40 years i think is that this incoming tide has raised all the boats. this is a good news story. now let's perfect it but let's do it in as scientific a way as possible and as transparent as possible. >> anyone else? mr. mcgwire? >> mr. tonko -- >> the gentleman's time has expired. make it quick. i recognize the gentleman from missouri mr. long for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman. mr. mcgwire, could you recommend to me what type of hair dryer would be the be

mr. cosgrove? >> and to mr. yurek's point following up a little bit, when you're sitting around a table talking about technical things you better have the technical chops to have that conversation. and so in this highly quantified algorithm they use, i'd like to see inside that. we have mathematicians. we can figure it out. i don't understand why we can't see what the key assumptions are and how they play inside the model they built and run through the computer. one of the things we've learned over the last 40 yeerars, this incoming tide has raised all the boats. let's perfect it and do it as transparently as possible. >> anyone else? >> gentleman's time is expired. we have votes coming up here. i recognize the gentleman from missouri, mr. long, for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman. mr. mcguire, could you recommend to me what type of hair drier would be the best purchase for my dishwasher so i can dry my dishes whenever the cycle is through? >> i'll provide that for the record. >> my dishes are not feeli

mr. cosgrove and mr. urich, how important is early stakeholder input for the rule-making process? what are the additional challenges that you face when d.o.e. issues a notice of proposed rule-making without having consulted with you beforehand? mr. mcgwire, let's start with you. >> i think it's very important from an effectiveness point of view. if the manufacturer hasn't had the ability to be in a dialogue with the government about the proposal and how they expect the efficiency requirements to be achieved and do some testing, then you're really dealing in a vacuum. this is what happened with the proposed dishwasher rule. these are technical matters. it's very important that not only manufacturers republican gauged early but all stake holders. this asrac process does do that. but the asrac process is useful once a decision has been made that will will be a new standard. what we're talking about is a change in the process for determining whether there should be a new standard. if there is going to be one, consensus is always the best. we feel we will do better as the advocates fee

mr. cosgrove just mentioned, distribution transformers, they ed may be reaching a high level of efficiency but all of the electricity that is produced in america goes through transformers so even half of a percent improvement there is going to be a significant national benefit. so i do think that there is opportunities that still exist to improve through the standards process. >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> the chair recognizes the gentleman from ohio, mr. latta, for five minutes. >> thanks, mr. chairman. and i also would like to echo that i think this is a great panel today and i really appreciate you all being here. i'm kind of an expert. my wife and i in the last six weeks just bought a washer and dryer and the refrigerator's next. but in northwest ohio we do make hvac. we make dishwashers. we make dryers. we make washing machines. we also make waffle irons. we make large mixers. and we also have a large freezer plant right in west central ohio. so we have a lot of things going on. it's very important to our economy, but mr. mcguire, if i could start with you, you've been particularly c