mr. cullbertson: he did. yes, it was not her. ms. swain: so it's important for us to move on for a bit, lucy hayes and the temperance movement happening in the united states. now, first of all, today we often see the expression or nickname lemonade lucy. was she known at the time by that name? ms. black: no, not at all. i mean, in fact, tom and i were talking earlier, we don't even know what -- we can't even find where the reference first appeared. it's been -- but it's one of those things that's just become apocryphal about her. i mean, i think one of the things that's -- you know, that's interesting about lucy is that she, you know, supports temperance, but never really affiliates with the woman's christian temperance union, who was -- you know, which was founded in ohio, her home state, by people that lived, you know within two hours' drive from her. and they're always trying to co-opt her. so she comes to this from her mother's father, her maternal grandfather, who was a member of the state legislature, w