mr. devine: i should probably just keep quiet. mr. shea: unlikely. mr. devine: yeah, in theory, you should, all right? and interestingly, jimmy carter's guy, real smart democrat -- he was my professor at syracuse university. he was on the democratic state central committee, new politics. he came up with the right ideas to reform government. he met with the unions through the process, but he did not really open everything up to them. he got the things through, got the approval for all the executive branch. the president signs off on it. they take it up to capitol hill. they won. the unions come out and say, hey, we are not going to do this. we don't have a civil service system. we have two systems working on top of each other in the federal government. we've got a civil service system that works up to approvals through the merit system protection board, and we have a union collective bargaining system that goes up to the federal labor relations board. when my predecessor put it, he just has the one with the civil servants. the unions is the whole second pa

mr. devine pointed out, to fire career civil service. people who make decisions without democratic accountability. and the political officials elected by the people have to land like it is omaha beach into entrenched your actresses that have their decision about how to make government decisions. i recognize what you are saying about the fact that it has gone back and forth, and any advance has been rolled back bank congress. ifas wondering, mr. devine, you had special regulations. would you go back to the carter reform? what would be your recommendations by which civil servants are hired and fired? mr. devine: there are two theories of public administration. one is that experts run everything theory. the administrative state goes back to wilson and to max weber, and that is the theory we have been running it on pretty much since, especially franklin roosevelt. the other is cabinet or political government. carter'sis what jimmy civil soros -- service reform act was about, which was give political appointees power over the bureaucracy, and

mr. devine and mr. wells. how were you treated as a peace corps volunteer, and how was the peace corps in general treated in that earlier era? mentionedlls, no one the decision not to include korea in the defense perimeter that the united states has established. how much did that way on soviet and north korean -- how much did that weigh on soviet and north korean thinking? michael: i peace corps experience took place in a much different korea. when i arrived0 after three months of training and hawaii and suddenly it was the end of january. the first thing i noticed was it was kind of cold. i was treated very well, much better than i deserved. i don't want to take a lot of credit for it. i certainly learned a lot. it confirmed in me that i wanted to come back and study american diplomatic history in u.s. foreign relations. i developed some lasting friendships and even ended up marrying a teacher at a nearby women's college. we've been together for 47 years, so i guess all these things would indicate i was treat

mr. devine examines the public and popular culture memory of the korean war. woodrow wilson center in washington, d.c. hosted this hour-long event. michael: thank you very charles for the kind introduction. i am pleased to be here at the woodrow wilson center as a fellow. it has been a great experience the last several weeks and i look forward to another bit of research and fellowship here at the center.

mr. devine: good morning. i am the former director of the harry s truman library in missouri, where i have had the distinct pleasure of serving with pleasure for 13 years. one of my ongoing historical jobs since retirement is to work with the good folks at the truman little white house in organizing a truman legacy symposium, looking at the truman 's administration. and more importantly, how that very important presidential administration impacts our life and times down to today. as bob said, this is our 15th year of putting on such a symposium. we are delighted to have the good folks at c-span with us again to help bring the program to a wider audience. i would like to think bob walls, the director of the truman little white house, and just tours also historic america an organization that has , supported all 15 of our programs. also the key west areas truman little white house foundation, which raises money to put the programs on and support the good work they do at the truman little white house. one little h