. >> did mr. dorr play any role as a consultant at the time of the clinton impeachment? >> not to my -- i don't know. i wasn't around in the clinton impeachment. listen to me there would be no clinton impeachment. but i wasn't around. the answer is probably not. but i don't know for sure. >> did you know that bert marshall opposed article 3? >> no. i did not know that. he did? that's interesting. >> he and owen fist had a debate about it. owen did support it. >> that was important. see, he -- i was a strong supporter of article 3. and i did know that dorr reached out to other people such as fist and marshall. he didn't rely on my judgment solely. he looked to me for advice and -- but he was looking to other people as well. so if i argued strongly as i did for article 3 i knew he would go to other -- like he should. that's the right thing. just because i say there should be article 3 doesn't mean there must be article 3. it was part of my -- even article 3, he was part -- the reason i wanted article 3 is because we had to sit down to the president's -- the executive branc