mr. dreeben, how do you explain how your articulation of your test wouldn't apply to the guideline change that we made. >> i think the key difference is that, with respect to the guidelines there was always a minimum and a maximum set by statute, and the guidelines, even when they were mandatory, did not preclude judges from sentencing outside the guidelines depending upon the presence of aggravating or mitigating factors that weren't taken into account. and as justice alito's opinion for the court in united states versus rodriguez recognized, even the top of a mandatory guidelines range was not truly mandatory. so even under the mandatory guidelines which for sixth amendment purposes were treated as if they established elements of the offense, for the purposes that we're looking at here, they are not mandatory in the same way. so booker brought about a procedural change. >> what is the substantive difference to pardon the use of the word between your formulation and petitioner's formulation that says this is substantive because it did away with mandatory life imprisonment? you're articul