donoghue and mr. engelwere preparing for that meeting at the white house, jeff clark and the president where in constant communication beginning at 7 am. white house call logs obtained by the committee show that by four 90 pm on january 3rd, the white house had already begun referring to mr. clark as the acting attorney general. as far as the white house was concerned, mr. clark was already at the top of the justice department. two hours later, doj leadership arrived at the white house. the select committee interviewed every person who was inside the room, what's inside the room during this sunday evening oval office meeting. mr. cipollone told the committee that he was, quote, unmistakably angry during the meeting and that he along with eric harshman and mr. donahue, quote, forcefully challenged mr. clock to produce evidence of election fraud theories. mr. rosen, can you describe how that meeting started? >> yes. so after some preliminaries -- so mr. meadows had assured us all in and then he left so mr. ci

mr. trump then used his free hand to lunge towards bobby engel and mr. renato told the story to me, he motioned towards hisclavicles. >> and was mr. engel in the room when mr. orinato tell you this story? >> he was. >> did mr. engel correct or disagree with any part of the story? >> he did not. >> did mr. engel or mr. orinato ever after that tell you what mr. engel had said was untrue. >> either ever told me it was untrue. >> a secret service agent now denies that trump grabbed the steering wheel or an agent, but cnn did speak to two secret service staffers who said that for more than a year similar stories had been circulating inside the agency about trump's behavior before and on january 6, this is as cnn also learns the u.s. secret service erased text messages from the day before and on the day of the insurrection. deleted after investigators requested them according to the inspector general, an allegation the secret service denies. and the january 6 committee member adam kinzinger tells the "wall street journal" the committee is still weigh ing ovr a

>> mr. engel did not correct or disagree with any part of the story. >> did mr. engel or mr. ornato after that tell you that what mr. ornato said was untrue. >> neither mr. ornato or mr. engel told me ever that it was untrue. >> while neither source says they heard about trump trying to grab the steering wheel, they did say this. nobody said trump assaulted him, they said he tried to lunge over the seat. for what reason, they had no idea. we're also learning new details about the attempt to influence hutchinson's testimony, multiple sources telling cnn someone on behalf of mark meadows contacted hutchinson before testified and that is crucial because hutchinson was one of his top aides and we know now, the details presented in the hearing were directed towards hutchinson and what was the message? listen. >> this is a call received by one of our witnesses. quote, a person let me know you have your deposition tomorrow. he wants me to let you know he's thinking about you. he knows you're loyal and you're going to do the right thing when you go in for your deposition. >> hutchins

mr. engel grabbed his arm and said so you need to take your hand off the steering wheel, we are going back to the west wing. we are not going to the capital. and mr. trump then used his free hand to lunch towards bobby engel and went he recounted the story to me he had motioned towards his clavicles. >> and was mr. engel in the room as he told you this story? >> he was. >> did mr. engel correct or disagree with any part of this story? >> mr. engel did not correct or disagree with any part of the story. >> did they ever after that tell you that what he just said was untrue? >> neither mr. engel or the other told me it was ever untrue. >> now that officer with dc metropolitan police department who was right there in the motorcade firsthand witness is corroborating details of what cassidy hutchinson told the committee and we have new reporting tonight which we will bring you in just a moment on the question of loss or erased, secret service text messages from january 5 and january 6 but i want to

mr. engel grabbed his arm and said you have to take your hand off the steering wheel, we are going back to the westwind. we are not going to the capitol. mr. trump then used his free hand to lunge towards bobby engel. he motioned towards his clavicles when recounting the story to me. >> was mr. engel in the room as he told you this story. >> he was. >> did mr. engel correct or disagree with any part of the story? >> he did not correct or disagree with any part of the story. >> did mr. engel ever come after that, tell you that what was said was untrue? >> neither told me ever that it was untrue. >> okay. now you have someone who was there. not just her hearing about it, someone who was there with that detail, telling you what happened. the secret service official has denied that trump grabbed the steering wheeled, but cnn spoke to secret service staffers who said that for more than here, stories have been circulating about the behavior trump before and on january 6. now you have someone who was

mr. engel grabbed his arm and said, sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel, we are going back to the west wing. we are not going to the capitol. mr. trump then used his free hand to lunge towards bobby engel. mr. engel and mr. ornado recounted the story to me, he motioned towards his clavicle's. >> was mr. engel in the room as mr. ornado told a story? >> he was. >> did mr. engel correct or disagree with any part of the story for mr. ornado? >> mr. engel did not correct or disagree with any part of the story. >> did mr. engel or mr. ornado after that say that what he said was untrue? >> neither mr. ornado or mr. engel said it was untrue. >> despite this physical altercation during the ride back to the white house, president trump still demanded to go to the capitol. here is what kayleigh mcenany, the white house press secretary at the time wrote in her personal notes and told a committee about president trump's desire to go to the capitol after returning to the white house. >> wh

ornato nor mr. engel ever told me it was untrue. >> so there's new reporting on that tonight as well as the apparent attempt to influence ms. hutchinson's testimony. cnn's ryan nobles is up on capitol hill for was more. what more are you learning about that alleged incident in the presidential suv back on january 6th? >> reporter: well, of course if you know that this is in dispute because soon after hutchinson's testimony, officials from the secret service started coming out saying they were prepared to refute part of what she had to say and they also followed up by saying both tony and bobby, the two agents in question would will willing to testify under oath and dispute part of what she said, specifically, that the former president made an effort to grab ahold of the steering wheel and there was some sort of physical altercation with bobby engel. what we have learned talking to two individuals who worked in the secret service in the months after january 6th told noah that this was a story that was pass

mr. engeled on december 1st 2020 that the department of had found no evidence of widespread fraud that could have changed the outcome of the election. so, from december 1st 2020 until today, as you sit here, have you ever doubted that top line conclusion? >> no, i've never had any reason to doubt attorney general barr's inclusion. >> thank you. >> to a section of -- the chair now recognizes the gentleman from illinois, mr. kinzinger, for questions. >> thank you, mister chairman. in the weeks leading to january 6th, the department of justice was fielding almost daily request from the president to investigate claims of election fraud. each claim was refuted time and time again. an effort that attorney general barr described as walkable. when each of the presidents efforts failed, he resorted to installing a new attorney general to say the election was illegal and corrupt, simply so he can stay in power. president trump started leaning on the justice department the first chance he got. on november

mr. engels grabbed his arm, said, sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel, we are going back to the west wing, we are not going to the capitol." mr. trump then used his free hand to launch toward bobby engel, when tony recounted the story towards me, he aimed toward his clavicle. >> was mr. engel in the room when he was telling the story? >> he was. >> did he disagree with any part of the story? >> he did not correct or disagree with any part of his story. >> did they ever act on that and tell you that what he had just said was untrue? >> neither of them told me ever that it was untrue. >> and despite this altercation, this physical altercation during the ride back to the white house, president trump still demanded to go to the capitol. here is what kayleigh mcenany, the white house press secretary at the time, wrote in her personal notes and told the committee about prison trump's desire to go to the capital after returning to the white house. >> when you wanted to walk to the capitol, was that based solely on what this president said during his speech or what anybody else a

mr. trump then used his freehand to lunge towards bobby engel. when mr. renando recounted the story to me he pointed towards his clavicals. >> secret service pushing back saying the agents involved would testify and deny it. but they haven't. so, how does all of this look now to you? >> well, it looked at -- cassidy hutchinson's testimony stands as of now unrebutted. circulating widely in the metropolitan police department and the secret service and in the reporting today it is great reporting that shows, you know, it is consistent with what cassidy hutchinson said. it is more important to take a step back and to remember that whether or not trump actually lunged at a secret service agent and if he tried to grab at the steering wheel is not the point. the point is he wanted to go. he was insist ant ongoing up to capitol hill and no one, not even the behind-the-scenes whisperers at the secret service who do not seem to be ready to offer up a sworn testimony not even they can attest that. that is the fact, that is the fact that matters and that is what all

mr. engel grabbed his arm, said, sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel. >> reporter: hutchinson says she was told the president then grabbed at the agent. today, sources tell abc news a d.c. police officer whose vehicle was part of the presidential motorcade says he they witness add a heated exchange. after hutchinson's testimony, sources close to the secret service say the president never put his hands on the agents or grabbed at the steering wheel. but they concede he was angry. tonight, the secret service coming under fire itself after word the agency deleted text messages from january 5th and 6th, even though they had been asked to hand them over to the inspector general of the department of homeland security. >> we are obviously very concerned that texts from january 5 and january 6 have gone missing. if those texts are gone, we are determined to find them. >> reporter: the secret service claims these messages were erased as part of a device replacement program, adding, an

. >> mr. engel grabbed his arm, said, "sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel. we're going back to the west wing. we're not going to the capitol." mr. trump then used his free hand to lunge towards bobby engel. >> reporter: today, trump denied it all. >> who would do that? i would grab a secret service person by the throat? >> reporter: and a source close to the secret service has told abc news and multiple other news organizations that agents bobby engel and tony ornato will dispute hutchinson's account that the president got physical. though the source does not dispute he got angry when he wasn't taken to the capitol. do you have any doubt at all in anything she said to you? >> i am absolutely confident in her credibility. >> reporter: cheney described the pressure campaign against potential witnesses. she told me the committee expects to talk to agents engel and ornato again. do you expect that that testimony will be live testimony, under oath like her testimony, and for the world to see? >> i think it is important that their testimony be under oath, and i un

mr. trump then used his free hand to lunge toward bobby engel and when mr.ry to me he had motioned toward his clavicles. >> reporter: cnn learning that accounts of an angry trump demanding to go to the capitol over secret service objections and lunging forward in the suv started circulating among agents in the months after january 6th. cnn has learned that agent tony ornato, who was also trump's deputy chief of staff, has met with the committee on two previous occasions. some committee members say his version of events on that day were murky. >> mr. ornato did not have as clear of memories from this period of time as i would say miss hutchinson did. >> reporter: meanwhile, the work of the committee was front and center last night in wyoming. >> the only time that the j 6 situation ever comes up is when people talk about how unfair this entire committee is. >> reporter: vice chair liz cheney's opponent harriett hageman promoting conspiracy theories about the election results while cheney accused hageman of doing trump's bidding. >> she knows it wasn't stolen.

mr. trump then used his free hand to lunge toward bobby engel. and when mr. ornato had recounted this story to me, he had motioned toward his clavicles. >> reporter: the secret service has not given a public account of what happened. one official telling cnn that the agents dispute hutchinson's account. but hutchinson's lawyers say she stands by her testimony. >> if people want to come forward and have different recollections, we would encourage them to come forward and give testimony under oath. that's very different than puppeting putting out anonymous statements. >> the committee has just announced plans for an eighth and possibly final hearing. it will happen thursday at prime time, 8:00 p.m., and it will focus in what was happening in th those 187 minutes when trump was out of public view and not stepping in as rioters attacked the capitol. jessica schneider, cnn, washington. >>> ukraine now says up to 70% of russian missile strikes go after civilian targets, including the city of mykolaiv where rescue workers are still trying to find people after ten mi

mr. trurp then used his free hand to lunge towards bobby engel. when mr.rnato recounted this story to me, he motioned towards his clavicles. >> reporter: cnn learning that accounts of an angry trump demanding to go to the capitol over secret service objections and lunging forward in the suv started circulating among agents in the months after january 6th. cnn has learned that agent tony ornato who is trump's deputy chief of staff met with the committee on two previous occasions. his versions of events on that day were murky, some say. >> mr. ornato did not have as clear of memories from this period of time as i would say ms. hutchinson did. >> reporter: meanwhile, the work of the committee was front and center last night in wyoming. >> the only time that the j 6th situation ever comes up is when people talk about how unfair this entire committee is. >> reporter: vice chair liz cheney's opponent promoting conspiracy theories about the election results. while cheney accused hagueman of doing trump's bidding. >> she knows it wasn't stolen. i think she can't s

mr. engels took his arm and said, sir, you have to take your handoff the steering wheel, and mr. motioned towards his clavicles. dan: was it the president trying to tap out the secret service agent? did you hear all the headlines? can you see them? we have them this time, the smoking gun. the walls are closing in. they were even calling it again worse and watergate. how can scandals will be worse than watergate. can you think of a new line, folks? i care about the truth. there are likely parts of or testimony that where probably true. but i will poke holes in other parts the journalists should have done before they ran with this story. first the language she used seems to give her a lot of wiggle room with notice what she says, the president says something to the effect. well did he say it or not. i'm not a lawyer. i have been in court a lot given my prior line of work in the law enforcement space. but that sounds like legal speak, i'm not exactly sure what he said but i will take a stab at it. anyone who knows how the secret service operates, especially the vehicles and transpor

mr. engelis arm, said, "sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel." >> stephen: that is insane. but, it is going to make a great season premiere of "kleptocrats in cars seizing power." ( laughter ) ( cheers and applause ) and-- ♪ ♪ ♪ ( applause ) true story. and he didn't give up. >> mr. trump then used his free hand to lunge toward bobby engel, and when mr. ornato had recounted the story to me, he had motioned toward his clavicles. >> stephen: he went for the throat! when you get into the secret service, you know you have to take one for the president, but you never expect to take one from the president. ( laughter ) "thank you for your service! let's keep this part secret!" the limo wasn't the only place the president got violent. hutchinson talked about the day bill barr went on the record saying there wasn't any fraud in the election. >> i noticed that the door was propped open, and the valet was inside the dining room, changing the tablecloth off of the dining room table. he m

it, is in the thing and they can control it and ensure that only appropriate things are done. >> mr. engel, from your perspective why is it important to have a policy as mr. rosen just discussed? >> it is critical that they conduct their investigations free from either the reality or any proposed political interference. people can get in trouble if people in the white house are speaking with people within the department. that is why the purpose of these policies is to keep these communications as in frequent, and at the highest levels, as possible. just to make sure that people who might be less careful about it, who may not understand these implications, such as mister clerk, do not run afoul of those content policies. >> thank you. the select committee conducted an informal interview with the white house counsel pat sub lonely and his deputy pat film in. and yet has agreed to sit for transcribed or videotaped interviews. but -- they intervened when he heard that mr. clark was meeting with the president without his knowledge, which was strictly against white house policy. mr. philbin, lik

mr. trump then used his free hand to lunge towards bobby engel, and when mr. renato had recounted the story to me, he had motioned towards his clavicles. >> cnn learning that accounts of an angry trump demanding to go to the capitol over secret service objections and lunging forward in the suv started circulating among agents in the months after january 6th. cnn has learned that agent tony orr ornato has met with the committee on two occasions. some say his versions of events on that day were murky. >> mr. ornato did not have as clear of memories from this period of time as i would say ms. hutchinson did. >> reporter: meanwhile, the work of the committee was front and center in wyoming. >> the only time that the j6 situation ever comes up is when people talk about how unfair this entire committee is. >> reporter: vice chair liz cheney's opponent promoting conspiracy theories about the election results, while cheney accused hagaman of doing trump's bidding. >> she knows it wasn't stolen. i think she can't say that it wasn't stolen because she's completely behol

mr. trump then used his free hand to lunge toward bobby engel and when mr. donato had recounted the story, he motioned to his clavicles. >> a glimpse there at the rage of donald trump then president of the united states when he couldn't go to the capitol but is that the important point or is it now, cnn reports that adc police officer assigned to the motorcade sought a heated exchange. is that important or is the fact that matters or is the fact that he simply wanted to join the protesters at the capitol. >> i think that's the big point here, obviously the details matter and i think it's important that that part of her testimony was cooperated. that was the one part where cassidy hutchinson acknowledged, this was not something she had witnessed firsthand and aborted because that was the one part of her testimony that trump world seized on to try to dispute her credibility and to my understanding, the people who said they be willing to talk to the committee have so far not spoken to the committee. we can't answer these questions or that there is a dispute abo

mr. trump then used his free hand to lunge towards bobby engel, when mr.is story he mentioned towards his clavicles. >> reporter: by 2:00 the capitol goes into lockdown, the senate abruptly adjourns soon after. back at the white house white house counsel pat cipollone tells meadows trump should intervene or people will die. >> mark had responded something to the effect of you heard it, pat, he thinks mike deserves it, he doesn't think they're doing something wrong. mark, something needs to be done or people are going to die and the blood will be on your effing hands. >> reporter: minutes later trump tweets, slamming pence for not overturning the election. >> the situation is already bad, so it felt like he was pouring gasoline on the fire by tweeting that. >> we need an area for the house members. they are all walking over now through the tunnels. >> reporter: at 2:30 u.s. capitol police start evacuating lawmakers and the secret service removes pence from the senate floor. and shortly after trump sends another tweet for everyone to remain peaceful, but doe

mr. engel you need to take your hand off the steering wheel. >> reporter: the agents involved denied those claims. according to the associated press the driver and a member of trump's security detail are willing to refute the story under oath. >>> house speaker nancy pelosi will join other members of congress for a press conference ahead of a house vote to codify a woman's right to an abortion. the women's health protection act would bar states from imposing restrictions on abortions that could make them more difficult or costly to obtain. speaker pelosi praised california's gun control efforts while calling on the senate to take action on a national level, starting with the passing of the house's active shooter alert bill. >> it's an amber alert. it can tell you when it's in your community nearby active shooting going on. it has broad support from the law enforcement community. if there's an active shooter threat in a school or any public place, the alert will go off. >> 168 house republicans

mr. engel grabbed his arm, said, sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel. >> reporter: the agents involved denied those claims. and according to the associated press, the driver and a member of trump's security detail are willing to refute the story under oath. >>> we are looking live at capitol hill. that's where house speaker nancy pelosi will join other members of congress for a press conference ahead of a house vote to codify a women's right to an abortion. the act would bar states from imposing restrictions on abortions that could make them more difficult or costly to obtain. during her daily briefing, house speaker pelosi praised california's efforts calling on colleagues in the senate to take action on a national level starting with the passing of the house's active shooter alert bill. >> it's like an amber alert. it can tell you when there's in your community nearby active shooting going on. it has broad support from the law enforcement community. if there's an active sho

mr. engel grabbed his arm and said, sir, you need to take your arm off the steering wheel. back to the west wing. mr. trump then used his free hand to lunge toward bobby engel. >> does this sound like the donald trump you've covered for all these years, or does this seem more extreme? >> well, it sounds like the person that he imagined himself to be. so this is a fellow who told me he's the hero in his own comic book, that he loves to fight all kinds of fights, even physical fights. the record doesn't show he's really done that. i think it's unlikely that he would somehow make his way across the beast and grab the steering wheel, but i think it's the kind of story people would tell about him. the part that is credible to me is the idea he insisted on going to the capitol himself. now we can only tremble at the thought of what would have happened if he had done that. i think the outcome would have been very different. the idea that he imagined being the president that would take over the car, force it to go up to the capitol, is how he would have thought about himself. but it

mr. engel grabbed his arm. said sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel. >> reporter: trump had dismissed hutchinson's testimony, but someone in the motorcade corroborated. >> mr. trump then used his free hand to lunge toward bobby engel. he motioned toward his clavicles. >> reporter: one official telling cnn that the agents dispute hutchinson's account, but huctchinson's lawyers say se stands by her testimony. >> if people have a different recollection we encourage them to come out and testify under oath. that's very different than putting out anonymous statements. >> reporter: the committee has announced plans for an eighth and final hearing on thursday at 8:00 p.m. and will focus on what happened in the 187 minutes when trump was out of public view and not stepping in as rioters attacked the capitol. jessica schneider, cnn. >>> georgia's republican party chairman david shavfer has received a letter warning him that he may be indicted. he helped organize a slate of fake electors in the state and

the president reached up towards the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel, mr. engel grabbed his arm, said, sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel. we're going back to the west wing, we're not going to the capital. mr. trump then used his free hand to lunge towards bobby engle and that's when mr. ronaldo had recounted the story to me, he motioned towards his clavicle's. >> the former president george, and his allies attacked hutchinson's credibility and even pushing back saying that the agents involved testified to deny it, but they haven't. so, how does all this look now to you? >> well, it looks like cassidy hutchinson's testimony stands, as of now, on rebutted. these stories, apparently according to other reporting, were circulating widely in the metropolitan police department and secret service. jamie gangel reporting today is great reporting and shows that it's consistent with what cassidy hutchinson said. it's more important to take a step back, and to remember, whether or not trump actually lunged at a secret service agent, and whether he tried

mr. ornato was there with bobby engel, the president's lead secret service agent. this employee told us that mr. ornato said that the president was, quote, irate when mr. engel refused to drive him to the capitol. mr. engel did not refute what mr. ornato said. the second witness is retired sergeant mark robinson of the d.c. police department, who was assigned to the president's motorcade that day. he sat in the lead vehicle with the secret service agent responsible for the motorcade, also called the ts agent. here's how sergeant robinson remembered the exchange. >> was there any description of what was occurring in the car? >> no. the only description i received was that the president was upset and that he was adamant about going to the capitol and there was a heated discussion about that. >> and when you say heated, is that your word or is that the word that was described by the ts agent? >> described by the ts agent, meaning that the president was upset and he was saying there was a heated argument or discussion about going to the capitol. >> about how many times

mr. ornato was there with bobby engel, the president's lead secret service agent. this employee told us that mr. ornato said that the president was, quote, irate when mr. engel refused to drive him to the capitol. mr. engel did not refute what mr. ornato said. the second witness is retired sergeant mark robinson of the d.c. police department who was assigned to the president's motorcade that day. he sat in the lead vehicle with the secret service agent responsible for the motorcade, also called the ts agent. here is how sergeant robinson remembered the exchange. >> was there any description of what was occurring in the car? no, only that -- the only description i received was that the president was upset, and was adamant about going to the capitol. there was a heated discussion about that. >> and when you say heated, is that your word or the word described by the ts agent? >> the word described by the ts agent, meaning that the president was upset and he was saying there was a heated argument or discussion about going to the capitol. >> about how many times would yo

>> the president reached up towards the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering well, mr. engel grabbed his arm and said, sir, you need to take your hand off the steering well and mr. trump used his free hand to lunch toward bobby engel. >> a secret service official would only speak on backgrounds of the agents involved in this would deny it but today abc police officer says, it did happen. >> and members of the january 6th panel are working on the next steps in their investigation does it include calling former president trump and vice president pence to testify? they are mulling it. we are staying on top of all of that. let's get to jessica snyder now. let's talk about these texts. tell us what happened? >> a lot of lingering questions here. we just learned the inspector general, first brought to light the text messages from the secret service were erased. he just briefed all nine members of the committee. he was caught on capitol hill by our team there. this is all in the midst of what has become a back and forth between the inspector general and the secret service, so here's

mr. engelis arm, said, "sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel we're going back to the west wing we're not going to the capitol." mr. trump then used his free hand to lunge towards bobby engel, and when mr. ornato had recounted this story to me, he had motioned towards his clavicles. >> seth: my favorite part of this story is imagining what would have happened if trump had actually succeeded and gotten his hands on the wheel i mean, can you imagine him driving a car? i mean, we've seen him drive a golf cart, but could he handle a, you know, a steering wheel that doesn't come with a tiny pencil holder? i mean, remember the one time he sat in the driver's seat of a truck and handled the wheel like a fifth-grader in a bumper car [ laughter ] let's say he really did get his hands on the wheel and drove the car. what would that look like? "alright, hands at 10:00 and 2:00, adjust your mirrors. check your blind spots, turn signal on, and we crashed into a tree guys, you got to tell th

mr. engel grabbed his arm, said, sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel. e going back to the west wing. mr. trump then used his free hand to lunge towards bobby engel. >> so, this is the part that governor noem was referring to and some secret service sources are disputing the account. others say, though, it tracks with what they heard. the question is, trump allies are trying to use this to discredit all of her testimony. why did the committee put this out there, ask her about this, that she heard secondhand without first obtaining corroborating evidence? >> well, i'm not going to say what we do or don't have in terms of corroboration, but let me say this, what she said is this is what she heard. at no point did she say she was in the beast with the president and saw this happen. now, you guys have done a good job of reporting secret service sources saying, they heard the same story. what you're seeing now, and this is typical for trump world, that nobody has argued, nobody has argued that the president didn't want to go to the capitol. nobody has argued h

mr. engel grabbed his arm. your hand off the wheel. >> reporter: a washington d.c. police officer who was in that motor kaed corroborated details of the heated ek change to the committee. >> mr. trump used the free hand to lunge and recounting the story he motioned toward his clavicles. >> reporter: the secret service did not give a public account of what happened. one said that they dispute the hutchinson account. >> if people want to come forward and have a different recollection we encourage them to give testimony under oath. that is different than putting out anonymous statements. >> reporter: there's a ailt and possibly final hearing. it will focus on what was happening in the 187 minutes when trump was out of public view and not stepping in as rioters attacked the capitol. wolf? >> we'll be watching. thank you. >>> let's get more on this right now. joining us cnn law enforcement andist and former secret service agent and chief legal analyst jef jeffrey toobin. is there a reason to erase the information? >

. >> mr. engelur hand off the steering wheel, we're going back to the west wing, we're not going to the capitol. mr. trump then used his free hand to lung towards bobby engel and recounted the story to me, motioned toward his clavicles. >> now, just as troubling as is his own violent behavior was the president's apparent knowledge of his supporters violent intent that day and he knew they were armed. the president was told many in the crowd, he had assembled, were armed. and yet, according to the testimony, he demanded the removal of the screening devices that would have detected those weapons. what should the consequences be for this type of behavior from the commander in chief of the united states? >> i think if you accept cassidy hutchinson's testimony and granted it has to be tested against other people's memories of those days, it means the department of justice needs to investigation whether or not the former president, while he was sitting in the office, knew that there was an attempt to use

mr. engel grabbed his arm, said, sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel. we're going back to the west wing. we're not going to the capitol. mr. trump then used his free hand to lunge towards bob by engel and when he recounted this story to me he had motioned towards his clavicles. >> let's start with the new reporting. cnn congressional correspondent ryan nobles has it. what are you learning? >> yeah, that's right, victor. this comes from two different sources within the secret service who spoke to our noah gray who said that this story of the former president being irate and demanding to be taken to the capitol on the day of january 6th was something that was spread around the secret service in the weeks, months and days after what happened on january 6th. some recounting this story as early as february and the two different sources have stories that are very similar to the one that cassidy hutchinson testified to in the hearing on tuesday saying that the president was mad and that he lunged toward the steering wheel in an effort to try and get the detail

ornado said that the president was, quote, irate when mr. engelhe capital. mr. engle did not refute what mr. ornado said. the second witness is retired sergeant mark robinson, of the d.c. police department. he was assigned to the presidents motorcade that day. he sat in the lead vehicle with a secret service agent responsible for the motorcade, also called the tsa agent. here's how sergeant robertson remembered the exchange. >> was there any description of what was occurring in the car? >> no. only that the only description i received was that the president was upset, and that was adamant about going to the capitol and there was a heated discussion about that. >> and, when you say cheated, is that your reward, or was that the word described by the tsa agent? >> well, described by the ts meaning that the president was upset, and he was saying there was a heated argument or discussion about going to the capital. >> well, sergeant robinson was then asked if he ever witnessed another argument or heated discussion with the president contradicting the r

mr. orbito was there with bobby engel, the president's lead secret service agent. this comploa told us mr. ornato said the president was "irate" when mr. engel refused to drive him to the capitol. mr. engel did not refute what mr. ornato said. the second witness is retired sergeant mark robinson of the d.c. police department who was assigned to the president's motorcade that day. h-- he sat in the lead vehicle with the secret service agent responsible for the motorcade also called the t.s. agent. here's how sergeant robinson remembered the exchange. >> was there any description of what was occurring in the car? >> no, only that -- the only description i received was that the president was upset, and was adamant about going to the capitol and there was a heated discussion about that. >> and when you say "heated," is that your word or the word described by the t.s. agent? >> no, the word described by the t.s. agent meaning that the president was upset and he was saying there was a heated argument or discussion about going to the capitol. >> about how many times would

the president reached up towards the front of the vehicle, to grab at the steering wheel hawaii, mr. engel grabbed his arm, and said, sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel. we are going back to the west wing, we are not going to the capitol. mr. trump then used his free hand, to lunge towards bobby, and as he recounted the story to me, he motioned towards his clavicle. >> the bobby angle she referred to, is the head of trump secret service detail, at the time, on that day. and, again, this particular story, florida, and the headline gravelling, is not the most relevant part of the testimony, subsequently. she also testified, remember, that trump wanted to get rid of the metal detectors at his ellipse rally, that right-wing games, like oath keepers, and proud boys, are being discussed at the white house in, the run up to the insurrection. that trump wanted to send, what he knew to be an arm of, to the capital. but, the detail about trump wanting to join the mob, so much so, he reportedly tried to grab the steering wheel he, was so wild, got a lot of attention, understandabl

mr. engel grabbed his arm said, sir, you need to take your happened off the steering wheel. mr. his free hand to lunge toward bobby engel. howard: and she quoted an exchange when some were chanting, "hang mike pence." >> they were literally calling for the vice president to be hung, and he responded something to the effect, he thinks they deserve it, he doesn't think they're doing anything wrong. >> we heard absolutely shocking details, all the behavior of the president of the united states on january 6th. >> listen, testimony is, first of all, stunning because we haven't heard this. >> i think that she comes across very credible. she has a good memory for all of these different conversations. >> as far as building the case about what the president knew and when he knew it and how illegal his acts were, boy, did she paint a damning picture. >> and as their surprise witness testimony blows up this many their faces, there's another problem for the democrats. it turns out that voters just don't care about this january 6th charade. >> i was really taken by, a young woman character to

mr. trump then used his free hand to lunge towards bobby engel and when mr. ronato encountered this story he had mentioned towards his clavicle. >> we were able to confirm that a d.c. police officer who was in that motorcade talked to the house select committee about this incident as well. he or she is essentially corroborating some details from hutchinson's testimony. we don't have yet more on exactly what the witness told the committee but one thing that has been playing out since hutchinson's testimony is this debate over the accuracy of the story she heard. the house is working hard to try to nail that down, what happened there, and the take away here still is that the most significant point of hutchinson's testimony is not being undermined, it's not being disputed. donald trump was demanding to go to the capitol with his supporters on january 6th, including when he was inside that suv driving him back to the white house as the crowd was getting out of control. brianna and john? >> katelyn polantz, thank you very much. >>> joining us now stacey richman, s

mr. engel wrapped his arm. he said sir you need to take your hand off to the steering wheel. we're going back to the west wing. >> we are back with their power packed panel. -- how are democratic voters described responding at the local level to the slip a testimony? is it breaking through? >> i think in the conversations that we've heard, democrats across the country are understanding that this january 6th thing may have been way worse than they thought. and the actions of president trump, it just proves more and more that the trump administration operated more like an organized crime family. between the witness tampering and also the actions towards the driver, i do think this is really going to affect voters perceptions of corruption and mobilize democratic voters in november. >> okay. jennifer, the committee closed the last hearing with some really explosive allegations that trump allies actually contacted witnesses about the testimony. apparently cassidy hutchinson got a message from someone. this is what that message said. a person let me know that you have your deposit

men gel mr. engel grabbed his arm and said sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel, we're going back to the west wing, we're not going to the capitol. mr. trump then used his free hand to lunge towards bobby engel and when mtold me, he pointed toward his clavicles. >> what is the committee hearing from this officer because that was the big question afterward when the secret service refuted it. remember the that's right. w . >> reporter: that's right. what the committee heard is now being verified by this officer. my colleagues confirmed that d.c. police officer who was in the motorcade talked to the house committee about this incident and he or she is intentionally corroborating some of the details from hutchinson's testimony and that is according to a source familiar with it. so we don't have more yet on exactly what this witness told the committee, but one thing that has played out since hutchinson's testimony is this debate over the accuracy of the story that she heard. the house is s

the president reached up towards the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel mr. engel grabbed his arm and said, sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel. we're going back to the west wing. we're not going to the capital. mr. trump then used his free hand to lunge towards bobby engle, and that's when mr. renato had recounted the story to me, he motioned towards his clavicle's. >> and was mr. engle in the room as mr. renato told you the story? >> he was. >> did mr. engle correct or disagree with any part of the story for mr. renato? >> mr. engle did not. correct or disagree with any part of the story. >> did mr. engle or mr. renato ever tell you that when mr. varnadoe had said was untrue? >> neither mr. ronaldo nor mr. engle told me ever that it was untrue. >> but now that officer with the tea metropolitan police department who is right there in the motorcade, a firsthand witness, is corroborating details of what kathy hutchinson told the committee. and we have new reporting tonight, which we are going to bring in just a moment, on the question or loss or e

. >> the president reached out towards the front of the vehicle to grab at the stealing wheel, mr. engel his arm and said sir, you take your arm off of the steering wheel. we're going back to the west wing, we're not going to the capital. mr. trump then used his free hand to lunge towards bobby engle, and he motioned towards his clavicle. >> joining us cynthia ochsner, a former federal prosecutor in msnbc legal analysts. we had a couple of days to not only digest the testimony, but to get the confirmations and seek corroboration for what she said how right-wing media has attacked cassidy hutchinson. what do you make of would happen on tuesday. how instrumental wait in this investigatiow that we have had a couple of days of analysis in between. >> first of all, i don't think the attacks on her have worked at all. when we are finding is that the attacks of her are corroborating her because the police and secret service are more corroborated been anything else. i think what it does is just one more thing that forces garland to act. this case with cassidy hutchison and the witness tampering

mr. engel grabbed his arm and said, sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel. we're going back to the west wing. >> so, jen, you know her proximity and what she was told. you can imagine also there are occasions when someone might have -- somebody in the detail might have texted ornato even if they don't usually text and say you won't believe what's going on with the boss. >> yeah. i had the same job that cassidy hutchinson had for leon panetta when he was chief of staff. so you hear and see a lot and you get surprised how frank and candid senior staff are to you. there's a lot of venting that happens around that person. they're often the best source person in the white house. but, you know, it is true that in my experience the secret service agents don't use a lot of texts. they are concerned about security. but the venting, the kind of texts that might happen after an specious as she described in the car, you know, that could be -- that could be possible. and, you know, we don't know it's convenient but was it a conspiracy? we don't know. the breakdown, andre