mr. ervint or issued a statement that the president reportedlyç said to his folks that he met with, in other words, his team, his 12 folks that were there, and the president saidç this. quote, this was a screw-up that could have been disastrous. we dodged a bullet but just it was averted by brave individuals, not because the system worked, and that is not acceptable. while there willç be a tendency to finger pointing i will not tolerate it. what do you make of that? >> i think that's absolutely spot on. the president was exactly right to say that. he has said essentially in the public statement. you can't fix a problem until you acknowledge it. theç president has said this before. this was a systemic failure. it is the first impulse of government always to down play crises.c that was the first impulse here with the department of homeland security. so the president is quite right, and the sense ofzv urgency that he conveyed is also important. most importantly to say it was a failure to conne

mr. ervinr issued a statement that t president reportedlyç said his folks th he met with, in other words, hiseam, his 12 folks that were there, and the esident saidç this. quote,his was a screw-up that cld have been disastrous. we dodged bullet but just it was averted by brave indivials, not because the system worked, and that is n acceptable. while there willçe a tendency to finger inting i will not tolerate i whato you make of that? >> i thinkhat's absolutely ot on. the president s exactly right to say that. he has said essentially the public statent. you can'fix a problem until you acknowledge it. theç president hasaid this before this was a systemic failur it is the first impulse governmentlways to down play crises.c thatas the first impulse here with e department of meland security. the president is quite right, and the sensefzv urgency that he conveyeds also important most importantly to say itas a failure to conne the dots. we created four entitiesfterç 9/11, the department of homel

and mr. ervin, you are the one who was most supportive of the idea of a war on terror and especially liked the answer to jacob's question, what are the pros of that report? >> well, i certainly think that their benefits at instances of overreaction. during the bush years, actually. as i said, to round up of arab muslim males for months, for years was an overreaction. i think it was an overreaction. i am appalled by the notion of indefinite detention of terrorist suspects. but the fact is, as i said before, that there are terrorists who are determined not to just kill americans by caliph in a catastrophic way with a weapon of mass distraction. and so there must be a recognition of that. and there must be an element of counterterrorism strategy that includes warlike elements, killing people. the use of the military. and i guess the final thing i'd say is that we need to redouble our efforts and i hope and expect, as i said also, that this christmas day incident will compel us to do that, too closable