mr. ferguson, let's go to a clip of john boehner who is doing his best to not be childlike, doing his bestion of the president, watch this. >> i talked to the president earlier tonight. i'm not going to negotiate, i'm not going to negotiate, we're not going to do this. well, i would say to the president, this is not about me, this the not about republicans in congress, it is about fairness for the american people. >> austin goolsby, about fairness to the american people, your reaction? >> look, my reaction, what we learned in the '90s, i believe we're learning now. the only reason we're about to have a shutdown is because there is a difference of opinion partly over the size of government and the level of spending, but really whose side fundamentally is america going to be on? and if you start seeing the p popularity of republicans dropping significantly over the next several days, then america comes to the conclusion that they don't like what the republicans are doing, you will see the republicans on both this and the debt ceiling cave or change their position, if it works the opposite wa

mr. ferguson could reasonably be described as britain's steve jobs given his unorthodox obsessed and sometimes bruising approach to making something beautiful. we'll talk about all those things, but did you think you were making something beautiful? >> i think that the encouragement i got from the airway part once they called -- >> rose: people wanted you fire. >> yes, exactly. one or two banners were up saying things. it was the combination and i knew the things it was doing was correct. so the board, the chairman and bobby in particular stood by me because they knew what was happening. by doing that, they knew we had something special in these young players back from scores. they all come to the first team roundabout the same time. when people were fascinated of today maybe they don't understand that those boys were the spell of the club. they created a fantastic spirit in manchester as it is today. >> rose: this is part of business for you. you went up there and they developed the taste test. what was the question. generally these things have a question. >> the main central point of the dis

. >> thank you, a judge ferguson. mr. kramer? >> thank you. i want to repeat what i said and one other thing. the irony of course is in the criminal justice context the cutbacks will in the and if they continue to result in a greater expense to the american taxpayer than it would have been of the system more adequately funded. and i would like to observe that the entire court system is such a tiny part of government relative to the other parts. i heard the budget for the department of justice and parts of and the fbi, the layoffs in the fbi, the number of people laid off is greater than the number of people in the public defender system in the entire country. and the budget of the bureau is a greater by $2 billion in the entire court budget. so what you are talking about is such a tiny portion of the federal budget that is at stake but such a crucial and important part of it. >> thank you. mr. kengle for the civil rights under law. >> just very briefly, i want to thank you and your members for the presentation today. my prior remarks were dire

kramer, judge ferguson and the president of the american bar, mr. -- [inaudible] in addition to be the president of the american bar association, he is also a member of the council on foreign relations and the american law institute, has served as the chair of the lawyers' committee for international human rights, was a fellow in the united states department scholar/diplomat program and is a jurist doctor graduate from the university of chicago law school. welcome, gentlemen, and welcome, mr. president, and we invite you to begin our discussion here today. >> thank you very much. my name is jim, i'm a partner in the sullivan and worcester law firm office in new york city and president of the american bar association, a voluntary bar association of more than 400,000 members around the country. thank you for inviting the aba to participate in this forum to discuss the adverse impacts, effects of the government shutdown and sequestration on excess to justice throughout the nation. this is a discussion we need to have in public forrah like this -- fora like this again and again to make sur