mr. giancarlo's comment about mr. gensler preferring the futures market over the swaps market because of this jurisdiction, i guess i find that rather provocative and i'll let him respond a little bit. i was more curious about what mr. parsons thought about mr. giancarlo's comment that this really creates a lot of regulatory arbitrage and unintended consequences as an economist. at like you to comment on that testimony. >> it's a very important problem in the cf to see us kind of between a rock and a hard place for two reasons. if you're talking about customized swaps, does it really different from futures and can only be dealt with in the otc swaps markets. for example, all these energy swaps that moved from swaps into futures, those are not customized. those are standardized instrument. they are treat on exchange effectively. they are clearer. this legacy to a standardized swaps and if you require them to satisfy regulation, supervised transparency and clearing, they are virtually from an economist point of view ind

mr. giancarlo's comments about mr. gensler preferring the futures market over the swaps market, because of this jurisdiction i guess i find that rather provocative. and i wanted to respond a little bit but i was more trees but what mr. carson's thought about mr. giancarlo's comments that this really creates a lot of regulatory arbitrage and unintended consequences, as an economist i would like for you to comment on his testimony. >> it's a very important problem, and the cftc's kind of between a rock and a hard place for two reasons. if you're talking about customized swaps, those are clearly different from futures and can only be dealt with in the otc swaps market. but for example, all of these energy swaps we've been discussing that move from swaps in the futures, those were not customized. those are standardized instruments. they are traded on an exchange effectively. they are cleared. as long as you're giving with standardized swaps, and if you require them to satisfy tions, supervise transparency a clearing, they