mr. ginham noted this on the fifth of january of 1981. zero 1626, the prime minister, the salient points of your lunge with rupert murdoch in line with your wishes it hasch with rupert murdoch in line with your wishes it has not gone outside number 10 -- it did not come out until march of this year. did you understand that? >> yes. >> according to the history of the times, the murdoch years you had no recollection of this lunch. >> i still don't. i accept mr. ginham's minutes, detailed minutes which sound to me to be correct. >> it was -- >> should ask mrs. thatcher. >> according to mr. ginham's notes, it was quite an infamous occasion if you look at the numbers of people there. the prime minister, thatcher and mr. ginham and you and the meeting was at your request. do you see that? >> yes. >> you don't mind if i keith you about it but when you told the select committee last year that you wished politicians would leave you alone and you weren't referring to this meeting. what we see -- >> i think this meeting was from the chief executive