mr. giuliani did this morning is not helping their cause whatsoever. >> i'm curious, chris, why you think now being so open about the meeting being intended to get information on clinton. i mean, how does that help the president strategically speaking when this all started out allegedly being a meeting about russian adoption? >> well, alex, i think the question assumes there is some kind of grand master plan or strategy behind anything that either the president or mr. giuliani is doing. i mean, i think -- it's clearly -- that is not the case. every time he goes on tv, he clearly hurts the president's case. he adds more questions. he fuels the fire. but i really think they've convinced themselves -- this is both president trump, giuliani, the legal team -- they've convinced themselves they can win this legal battle on the news. they can win it in interviews. they are completely, i think, underestimating the legal clamty that -- calamity that's facing them. it's real simple. the reason why mr. trump and rudy giuliani talk about not wanting to sit down for interviews is not because they're a

mr. giuliani. this is all mr. giuliani all the time. when mr. uliani says, i'm going to set the terms of the interview between mr. mueller and president trump so he is not permitted to ask him questions about what the president said to james comey about laying off mike flynn, basically, mr. giuliani is saying that bob mueller shouldn't be allowed to ask the president anything incriminating or relevant to the investigation. that's pure nonsense. as a 30-year federal prosecutor, we don't negotiate interviews with targets, which the president may have ripened into. this is nonsense. >> you are talking about the president of the united states. it's something different. this is an investigation -- we are saying like no other. when it comes to the timing, does it -- it's something of a negotiation though. if they're going to get it done -- giuliani kind of confusing a little bit on that front as well. he said that if they don't sit down by september, trump isn't going to sit down at all. if it isn't done by september, the investigation should be termin

mr. giuliani.ems to be trying to negotiate with an on coming freight train and that's bob mueller. and you know he just needs to either get off the tracks or i think he's going to get run over. i don't believe this was an intent to bring the president in to sit down with bob mueller. i don't think we'll see him appear before a grand jury even though the president could voluntarily submit to the grand jury jury. i don't think that mueller willson him because the department of justice has a policy against subpoenaing the target of the investigation. my strong sense we'll never see the president interviewed before bob mueller reaches his decision, whether is to return indictments or author a report which is disclosed to congress. >> mr. mueller's office declined to comment. that something you read in piece after piece about the whole process. i think that's worth pointing out. thank you both for joining us. we'll continue toollow what appears to be a very small demonstration in washington, d.c. law en

mr. giuliani seems to speak off the cuff a lot. it can hurt the client quite a bit because all of us are looking for clues as to what actually the president said and did and taking his word seriously. i don't understand the legal strategy here at all. >> i want to get giuliani's words correct before you respond. listen one more time to what he said just last month. >> how is he a good witness for the president if he is saying that the president was directing him in his words to let the michael flynn investigation go? >> he didn't direct him to do that. what he said -- >> he clearly says trump asks comey to give flynn a break. when that comment made headlines giuliani didn't issue any kind of corrections or clarifications. >> look, giuliani does not speak precisely sometimes. that's what happens from time to time. we have seen that throughout this process. in legal terms lawyers use the term arguendo for arguments sake meaning we are going to assume that what the other side is arguing is correct or the facts that they are putting fo

mr. giuliani did not go that far in his appearances. don mcgahn ignored questions about this weekend's reports. >> why did you wait so long to speak to special counsel? >> did you confide because you thought the president would deter you? >> do you regret that decision? >> and like clock work, when the news media reveals details of the mueller investigation that disturb the president, the president's tweeting becomes even more hysterical. this morning the president tweeted these lies about special prosecutor robert mueller and his staff spent over 30 hours with the white house counsel, misspelled by the president, only with my approval for purposes of transparency. anybody needing that much time when they know there is no russian collusion is just someone looking for trouble. they are enjoying ruining people's lives and refuse to look at the real corruption on the democrat's side, the lies, the firings, the e-mails and so much more. mueller is looking to impact the election. they are a national disgrace. >> joining us now intelligence a

mr. giuliani said, yes, mr. trump knew that he had to reimburse mr.nce made for this payment. is there any independent evidence that mr. trump said to mr. cohen you need to do this, i don't want to do this? that may come down to mr. cohen's word versus mr. trump's and now we'll have to wait and see if mr. trump is willing under oath to say what mr. cohen said under oath, which is that he was directed to mr. trump to do this. >> has the southern district of new york released michael cohen to the point that if congress wants him to testify tomorrow, let's say he got invited to the house or senate judiciary committee to testify tomorrow, could he do that? would the southern district let him do that or are they not done with him yet? >> i really don't know the explicit answer, but i think there's an implied answer. he is allowed to travel to washington under the terms of whatever arrangements have been made. it strikes me that they would not block a congressional request, but i don't know specifically whether that's true, chuck. >> can you say definitivel

mr. giuliani and mr. trump were put to the test. as we also heard mr. uliani saying, he's arguing in the alternative. to me, he's arguing a reality. a false reality. his statements don't seem tied to the law or the facts. seems to say whatever comes to mind at any given moment. i can tell you that's very confusing for the american people. i'll give give you a quick example. i just had a murder trial where the defense lawyer stood up all trial and said the client didn't commit the murder, he was across town. then in closing arguments, he said but if he was on the scene and he did shoot the victim, it was self-defense. that's a very confusing thing for a jury to digest. i as a prosecutor said, look, even the defense lawyer is saying his client was on the scene. these kind of arguments routi routinely fail in the court of law. i think these will fail in the court of public opinion as well. >> how are they going to play into the investigation? are they? i mean, robert mueller's got to be watching this. >> sure, he's watching it. he's focusing on his investig

mr. giuliani says that mr. is setting a perjury trap for the president, the american people should hear that as the president is either unwilling or incapable of coming in and telling the truth. >> got to get a forensic expert to test what is in my cup. want to get you to react to this back and forth. this is something that's been promulgated by the president's lawyers mostly. we've heard little about the team and whole process, what does that say to you about the importance of this interview. >> it's that mueller doesn't leak and the president's team scrambles. they have a problem, several problems, and it's not that president trump lies or habitually lies. there have been am demmic text on the divs fference of lying a bs. he doesn't know the difference between truth and lies. no chance he's not going to say, there's no chance he will do a deposition without saying loads of things that are untruthful. the irony is the way for him to explain away the public statements that he made, that would seem to indicate o

mr. giuliani saying how do we know she was russian? she had a russian name. something as simple as that. he is providing information that can create additional material that can be used to get mr. trump to double talk, triple talk and quadruple talk. >> this story was really about trying to drive some wedge between the president and his lawyer. it was talking about the strained relationship they had which isn't true. i was a governor's lawyer in pennsylvania. you always going to have disagreements with your client. it seems that is what they were trying to portray here and it kind of blew up on him a little bit. the president came out through sarah huckabee sanders and supported don mcgahn and talked about the great things on regulatory reform, judges and a real high profile matter that don mcgahn is working on. that is the next supreme court justice. it shouldn't be lost on anyone that this is breaking now trying to drive the wedge and drive a problem where don mcgahn is doing a very good job at moving the process along. >> if this is a non-story, if this is

mr. trump knew about and indeed rudy giuliani admitted even after mr. trump lied about it on air force one when he said "i don't know anything about it." giuliani said mr. cohen was reimbursed for what turned out to be a loan. >> but was there any other person who heard, directly heard the president coordinate direct michael cohen to go ahead with these payments to these two women? >> well, the information filed by the -- the answer is not explicitly named in the information filed by the prosecutors but the prosecutors leave anonymous the individuals from the campaign and the individuals from the organization who would have been aware of mr. trump's knowledge if not direction and making it illegal, his distinction between personal and campaign funds. somebody's given him bad legal advice, maybe it's rudy giuliani. >> but who are those individuals that you suggest knew about all of this that could back up what michael cohen said in court yesterday? >> we don't know because the prosecutors chose to name them individual 1, individual 2. and i assume that th

mr. giuliani i would refer you back to him. >> was that authorized by the president? >> once again for question specifically about the investigation, particularly from rudy giuliani i would refer you back to him to address that. >> how can americans not interpret that as getting back against his critics? isn't it also an attempt to curtail their freedom of speech by penalizing four being critical on television? >> not all. the president has a constitutional responsibility to protect classified information and who has access to it. and that is what he is doing, fulfilling that responsibility. this is actually specific to mr. brennan and the others currently under review. >> is this something he wants to set a precedent for other future presidents and why are there not republicans on the list? >> once again if we deemed necessarily we would look into that and be happy to review those. >> i guess, the reason people say this argument of credibility that is obvious -- the former national security advisor admitted lying to the fbi. why is this only democrats that have been c

mr. giuliani admitted he directed mr. cohen to do, why didn't donald trump write the check himself? he covered up what he knew was wrongdoing? >> this is all going to come down to proof, where are the receipts, right? where are the receipts? that michael cohen has? >> and speaking to chris earlier, chris said he has no reason to lie, it doesn't behoove him to lie, because then he's in more trouble than he's already in. does he have the proof? does he have the receipts? so first of all, yes, the wire transfer from the trump corporation to the account that michael cohen set up that then went to stormy daniels is recognizable and provable. let me repeat, the proof is president trump's own lawyers wrote the special council and used the word directed. there doesn't need to be proof when the lawyers have acknowledged that the client directed michael cohen to make an illegal payment. making the payment as guilty certainly as the lawyer, an in my judgment, more guilty because he was trying to cover up and hide his own role in the situation with ms. daniels by having cohen do the deed rather

mr. giuliani said a pardon was not under consideration. is this just trying to muddy the waters? >> you look at the fox interview today, the president didn't rule it out. he didn't really answer the question. he did speak, you know, quite favorably about paul manafort. the white house is trying to put some distance between this. they're obviously not trying to signal anything. but we also know that the president likes pardon power. there's only so many things he can do unilaterally. it is a muscle or a tool he's flexed. >> we've seen it. he commuted sentences for nine people, some of those most famous ones joe arpaio, scooter libby. he's also kind of using the language of pardoning when he talks about manafort. he essentially frames him as being railroaded by the justice system in the same way he framed pardons for these folks. >> and looking at it from his perspective, there really doesn't seem to be a case against it. if there were evidence that, for instance, republicans in his own party would really put up a fight about this and say this dle clearly shows obstruction of justi

mr. giuliani.dly, it's really important because, and perhaps most important because of the effect it has on others. people no doubt who have been involved in all these matters are observing the white house counsel himself giving testimony. if there's anything untoward going on, and i'm not suggesting that mcgahn's testimony proves that, but if there is, others have to be standing by watching this and thinking, i don't want to be the last one standing. i don't want to be the last one to cooperate with the special counsel. i think what you're going to see here is frankly a rush to the door of the special counsel so that people who may have concerns about what they know, what they've observed are themselves being forthcoming with the investigation. >> so when rudy giuliani says, you know, he thinks he knows how don mcgahn would have testified and he believes that he is is a strong witness for the president, is that wishful thinking? because don mcgahn is under oath when testifying or being questioned.

mr. giuliani has said, you know, the campaign finance laws are minor violations. they don't amount to anything. i mean, that's just dead wrong. you can't break the law in trying to become president. willful, knowing violations of the campaign acts are felonies. >> jack makes an important point. the white house points out correctly the president has not been charged with any criminal wrongdoing. he has not been indicted with any criminal wrongdoing. but in all the federal statements that were made when michael cohen pleaded guilty to those eight counts, especially to counts seven and eight, the federal prosecutors do say that the president of the united states was in effect an unindicted coconspirator. even though he wasn't formally charged or indicted. >> the president is individual one in the michael cohen plea documents. that's such a dramatic and unique experience to have. we have a federal criminal case, michael cohen pled guilty, michael cohen said in court and in the documents that the individual who he coordinated with and who directed him to commit this ca

mr. giuliani put it, the truth isn't always the truth. meaning, there could be different versions of the truth, and the president in an interview could walk himself right into a perjury trap. at the white house, i'm kevin corke, foxnews. >>> let's get to bill now in the weather center. >> we are tracking cooler weather. last smoke than we've seen the last couple of weeks, and that's good news. the smoke showing the smoke plumes. most of it you can pick up from the mendocino complex fire but you see the smoke kind of streaming east. we've got a good onshore flow. it's not just smoke in our area. it's smoke in idaho and washington. the whole northwestern half of the united states is really inundated with a lot of smoke. and, that's going to gradually get better with this cooler weather we've been experiencing at the good onshore flow that we've seen. that's helpful and makes everybody happy. also, i mentioned last night with the marine layer stretching out a little bit, when that happens, you get much better air quality. now the atmosphere

mr. giuliani and mr. trump through mr. giuliani accused my client, mr.ohen, of saying the word "cash." the only people who use cash are drug dealers and mobsters. >> jimmy: right. and nail salons i think also. [ laughter ] you know this tape, when you hear trump and cohen talk, it does feel like they're characters out of a mobster movie or drug dealers or something. since we only have the audio, no video, we decided to give this the hollywood treatment. these are scenes from the new movie "the don." >> i need to open up a company for the transfer of all of that info regarding our friend david. it's all the stuff. >> if he gets hit by a -- >> correct. i'm all over that. i spoke to alan about it. when it comes time for the financing -- >> what financing? >> we'll have to pay -- >> pay cash. >> no, no, i got -- no, no, no. we got served from "the new york times," i told you this, regarding the -- unseal the divorce papers with ivana. we're fighting it. >> get me a trump list. >> jimmy: all because a playmate said hello. [ cheers and applause ] we're going t

mr. giuliani says unless we have corroboration for it. i have to tell you, think it extraordinarily unlikely president will ever sit down for an interview with bob mueller's investigators. look, bob mueller has connected what we can be sure is a very far-reaching, broad investigation, and he knows the answers to the questions that he's going to ask. he knows that if the president sits down and answers truthfully, bob will know, if he answers untruthfully, mr. mueller will know. i really have to believe that mr. trump's lawyers are not going to expose him to a five-year offense under 18usc1001 for each lie the president tells. i mean, we see the president contradict himself frequently in tweets. in public appearances. and i really think that if there's one smart tactical decision that mr. giuliani and his team will make, it is to not let their client sit down with bob mueller. >> all right. thank you for that. jennifer, the "times" is also reporting the president's lawyers are unwilling to agree to follow-ups in person. they cite concerns

mr. giuliani is suggesting i don't have to cooperate. i'm not going to answer. think clinton did the right thing. he is the head of federal law enforcement as president. he should cooperate because it sends a message throughout the whole legal system. if the president is going to cooperate, how is the justice department going to get people on the inside of mafia or drug cartels to cooperate with the government. i think the president is not just a private citizen. he is the hid under the constitution of all law enforcement. he should comply with his own prosecutors. if he thinks mueller is doing a terrible job, he can fire mueller and replace him with somebody else. but he still should comply. the last thing he wants is for mueller to go to the supreme court and ask for a subpoena to force the president to testify which would trigger a constitutional crisis. >> dana: and then we would have to have you back because you teach constitutional law at berkeley. i'm sure there is more than five or six students. there is seven of them and i am one of them. congressman ch

mr. giuliani put it, the truth isn't always the truth. meaning, there could be different versions of the truth, and the president in an interview could walk himself right into a perjury trap. at the white house, i'm kevin corke, foxnews. >>> a uc berkeley architecture professor has been suspended for 3 years, without pay, over sexual harassment allegations. middle east scholar nezar alsayyed is accused of putting his hand on a female student's thigh and making sexual advances toward her in 2013. the allegations prompted a student walkout in 2016. the university said the president engaged in a pattern of sexual harassment and created a hostile environment. the professor has denied the allegations. >>> attorneys say a nationwide chain of massage clinics is not doing enough to protect its women clients. we'll tell you what they had to say and what they did coming up. >>> plus, the next step in prosecuting the suspected golden state killer. what we are expected to learn tomorrow, and how a bay area county may potentially play a role. >>> cool

mr. giuliani would contend otherwise. look, it's like, you know, you have -- you have the intrigue with the president's administration and this side show, this synopsis of inner fighting within the president's legal team. >> ozzie, the president just tweeting this about the report saying the failing at new york times wrote a fake piece implying because don mcgahn was given hours of testimony to the special counsel, he may be a john dean type rat. i allowed him and all others to testify. i did not have to. i have nothing to hide. okay. ozzie, what do you make of that? >> clearly, he doesn't feel like he has nothing to hide. he openly said statements he gives to the media may not be truthful. what is he actually doing? painting the picture and hitting the same drum he and his team tried to say before, there's no collusion, this investigation is going on too long. this is a public media strategy to shape the narrative about the investigation. he has no standing. >> also, putting that watergate inference in there, too. >> as

at the end of the day president trump will do what his lawyers advised him to do and i know that mr giuliani and others have advised him not to directly talk to mr moller and i believe that that type of wisdom will prevail none of this is good for the country though is that i know that's a very very broad statement to make but the amount of distraction which this is causing for good reason it seems as well none of this is good when you've got an election only a few months away. well here's something very interesting about the american people and about this particular issue which has been going on forever the american people have become so desensitized and numb to this that what they are focused on is the economy they're focused on jobs they're focused on job growth they're focused on tax cuts president trump has delivered to the american people every promise he made it's not that they don't care about this but it's not a priority on the minds of most americans and when they go to the polls they're not going to be think about that could be thinking about these issues they're going to be think

mr. giuliani and the congresswoman is spot on. put aside all the charges and all the plea agreements he negotiated, look at the russian military intelligence indictment. those are extraordinarily compelling documents because they lay out in more detail than you normally see in an indictment of this type what the russians did in our election. and that's exactly what mueller was asked to do. figure out what happened. and, so, i'm not, don't count me as somebody who pays much attention to what mr. giuliani says. >> a lot of people are not paying attention to a lot of these sorts of things. but yesterday the president said something about i could run this investigation myself, if i wanted to. and i said something that made a lot of people think i was a republican because it said it sends a chill down my republican spine. this is a line, i think, the president crossed last night in suggesting that he can judge himself. that is a fundamental legal principle that we have in this country that you don't get to judge yourself. >> correct. t

is making headlines this week there's been a lot of talk about what the president's a war you're mr giuliani said yesterday he basically said that he's not sure now that collusion is a crime and earlier today the u.s. president tweeted collusion is not a crime but it doesn't matter because there was no collusion except by crooked hillary and the democrats now the crime that could be revealed would be working with a foreign power to influence the u.s. election so why the focus now on collusion not being a crime what do you think is going on here. looks like the from campus trying to shift the goalposts a little bit again in the beginning after the election they said well there were no contacts with the russians from the trump camp from the campaign then it came out that there were a number of contacts with the russians from a number of members of the trump team including his son donald trump jr and they said well yeah but there was no collusion maybe they feel. the special counsel will come to the conclusion that there was some kind of at least attempted collusion there were seem to be some m

mr. giuliani took another crack at it this morning. >> what he was saying is perfectly justifiable. he didn't say you must, you have to, i'll fire you if you don't. he said consider it. number three, he never said it. lawyers talk like this all day. we call it arguing the alternative. >> so let's start to unpack all of that. i'm joined by alan dershowitz, the author of the book the case against impeaching trump and jeffrey toobin, who once study under professor dershowitz. jeff, the idea that giuliani floated that the conversation never took place, is this some strategic shift or is this just a lawyer who can't keep the story straight? >> no, i think there is method here. you need to look at what giuliani is doing as a political strategy more than a legal strategy, and he is giving choices to what people want -- can believe. they can believe that this conversation never took place. they can believe that if it took place, there was no crime committed there. and i think this is something that the president has been doing, which is basically throw everything up against the wall. and, y

mr. giuliani would want to try and talk folks out of calling the president. he probably is not a very good witness. the fact that, you know, mueller can't rely on giuliani's testimony. that doesn't do him any good. he needs to hear from the president. the other alternative, of course, is the president could simply stipulate, agree to a set of facts. agree that he fired jim comey because, as he told lester holt, of the russia thing. if the president was willing to do that, i guess that would be a substitute. giuliani is not a substitute. >> you dropped in something that i don't want to let go unremark upon. you talked about mueller could subpoena the president. do you believe now at this point that is mueller's only option with all the shenanigans and b.s. going back and forth between jay sekulow and rudy and the special counsel's office? >> look, if the president keeps saying, i have nothing to hide and i want to talk to bob mueller. well, if you want to talk to bob mueller, talk to bob mueller. and if you have nothing to hide, then hide nothing. but this has

mr. giuliani's presentation has been all about. look, the opportunity that they booted away -- this is somewhat in contradiction of jim's point about what flood is doing. they have been focused on whether the president is going to sit down for an interview with the special counsel. back and forth, back and forth, we're not going to that, being very tough. in the meantime, they turn their back on the white house counsel. he has given them 30 hours of interviews. it's the next best thing. not only have they gotten that, but they didn't assert executive privilege. with that, have some leverage in order to set the terms of the interview and ensure themselves that they could be debriefed on what happened there. >> jack, you wrote in a piece in february in "the washington post" that you understand where they're coming from. right? you tried to do essentially the same thing in the clinton white house to try to push off, push off an interview. but now you say that that is a misgie misguided strategy. why is it legally misguided? >> it was

mr. giuliani and mr. avenatti and others have all discussed on the air. that recording itself goes somewhat toward what we're talking about today but i think you've got to think the prosecutors know what they're doing here. >> carl bernstein, great to have you with us to put this in to bigger perspective. again, a man in open court under oath said the president told him to break the law. much more to discuss, including the president's first reaction. poppy harlow picks it up after a quick break. done. hit the snooze button and get low prices on school supplies all summer long. like these for only $2 or less at office depot officemax. like these for only $2 or less with pg&e in the sierras. and i'm an arborist since the onset of the drought, more than 129 million trees have died in california. pg&e prunes and removes over a million trees every year to ensure that hazardous trees can't impact power lines. and since the onset of the drought we've doubled our efforts. i grew up in the forests out in this area and honestly it's heartbreaking to see all these t

mr. giuliani it seems to raise more questions about the overall investigation. it all comes down to one central question, steven, will the president agree to an interview with the special counsel's team? mr. trump's attorney rudy giuliani suggested doing so could be a perjury trap and in making the case about that on nbc's "meet the press" giuliani gave life to a head-scratching term that is akin to saying the sun is the moon and the sky is the ground. listen for it. >> i'm not going to be rushed into having him testify so that he gets trapped into perjury. and when you tell me that you know, he should testify because he's going to tell the truth and he shouldn't worry, well, that's so silly because it's somebody's version of the truth, not the truth. he didn't have a conversation about -- >> truth is truth. i don't mean to go -- >> no, it isn't truth. truth isn't truth. the president of the united states says i didn't -- >> truth isn't truth? mr. mayor, do you realize what -- >> no. no, no. >> this is going to become a bad meme. >> don't do this to me. >> chuck

mr. giuliani essentially offered up the same comments. the reality is that a candidate can spend as much as they want on their campaign, but they would have to disclose that. so there would be accountability. when you look at this matter, the money that mr. cohen paid at mr. trump's direction, according to mr. cohen, was done for payments for porn stars and mistresses. if this were funds used for signs and things, maybe you would say the lawyer was acting as an agent. saying look, i do not have the cash and do you mind fronting it? this is circumstantially, the nature of this transaction, is under nefarious intent. of course, mr. cohen testified to that in court. and finally, this is donald trump's justice department. this isn't in some rogue entity or third-party country. these are political appointees of mr. trump. the head of the southern district of new york, is a person mr. trump appointed. it is a little bit disingenuous for him to talk all this of a witchhunt when it is his team bringing the charges. host: how often is the justice

mr. giuliani has been negotiating for months and months. >> you mean they are leaking all of this. >> i thought if that is accurate, here is what he is trying to do. question number 1 for example could be, mr. trump, did you tell director comey to layoff flynn. there is only two answers to. that if the president answers no, bob mueller i am betting he is lying about that. if he is answering yes, that is evidence of obstruction. lose-lose for the president. bob mueller will put those written questions together because he wants everybody to believe he is giving the president an opportunity to say his peace and have his answer be heard. he is going to push that paper back and say i think we will pass. >> that is one of the reasons giuliani's proposal to mueller is we will answer questions on collusion but not on obstruction. they know if mueller believes comey or other witnesses trump is going to contradict them and there he is in perjury. >> the tease that has been going on is ask questions about motive. i don't think you can ask somebody as wily as trump about his motive. it is a subjective anal

mr. giuliani was interviewed on new day and i have to say i thought he was just winging it there. i think he was winging it on "state of the union" and winging it on abc in that earlier clip. rudy giuliani is not acting like an attorney representing a client in an important case. if one of my law partners was representing a client in a case like this much less the president of the united states, they would appear for hours on cnn or abc news. they would be very careful and thoughtful and precise about their words. that's how any competent lawyer would act. giuliani in my opinion is not acting as a lawyer but acting as somebody providing a distraction who's probably not even fully briefed by the legal team, who's just going out there and spouting words. and i think he's really doing damage to his client because we're all taking this seriously and dissecting what he says. but there's no strategy in using imprecise language and making news yourself. and contradicting yourself. he shouldn't be the news. his client should be the news and they should be careful how they advance forward.

mr. giuliani and mr.hen. >> we look forward to hearing what you learned on the intelligence committee that you can share. congressman mike quigley. thank you for being with us on "new day." >> thank you. >> john? >>> hawaii faces its biggest weather threat in decades as hurricane lane closes in. next. this is the ocean. just listen. (vo) there's so much we want to show her. we needed a car that would last long enough to see it all. (avo) subaru outback. 98% are still on the road after 10 years. come on mom, let's go! (avo) right now, get 0% apr financing on the 2018 subaru outback. dozens of people 50 and over, who like me, are actual customers of the aarp auto and home insurance program from the hartford and over that time i noticed a common theme. people appreciate the value they get with the hartford. - we originally signed up for automobile and homeowners' together. the hartford was the only one that was able to save us money. - that's a good feeling, huh? - yeah, it's good to have everything bundled

mr. giuliani said the president is open to talking to mr. mueller under limited conditions but in a new development said mr. trump would not sit for an interview after september 1 because it would interfere with the midterm elections. here with us a former assistant u.s. attorney with the eastern and southern district of new york and sam stein is back with us, politics editor for the daily beast. sam, beginning with you because you can say whatever you wish. what are we witnessing? is this just letting it fly? >> can i say whatever i want? >> well, within reason i guess. >> probably not professional. it is letting it fly. this is not a coherent legal strategy by any stretch or not even an effective one or not even an effective pr strategy. rudy giuliani is not there to serve the president as a lawyer in the traditional sense. he is there as a political hencheman. part of his task is to simply muddy the waters and insist that things he said a month ago he never said to keep moving the dates in the negotiation goalpost. what he gets out of thi

mr. giuliani-- who knows from being u.s. attorney-- the only people who use cash are drug dealers and mobsters. >> stephen: it's a good point. remember, when your grandma sends you $5... ( laughter ) she's just laundering money for el chapo. ( laughter and applause ) oh, yes. she's up to her neck in it. she's got blood on her hands! but regardless of what the tape proves, trump and cohen's lawyers aren't debating whether they're paying hush money to hide his affair. they're debating whether he wanted to use cash or check. the currency does not matter! for pete's sake, it could have been a barter system. ( as trump ) "look, in exchange for their silence, i offer them a herd of oxen, a jug of milk, and a bolt of silk from ceylon. oh, and i'll throw in eric." ( laughter ) ( cheers and applause ) we got a great show for you tonight. ( cheers and applause ) john dickerson is here. but when we return, how trump is making farmers mad. stick around! farmers! ( band playing ) ( cheers and applause ) ♪ ooh, heaven is a place on earth

mr. rudy giuliani is saying in public when you have other instances of foreign interference and claim they didn't know or this person was not somebody who seemed to be, up to know good will raise a lot of questions. >> don't the president's own words, one he dictated as to the reasoning behind this particular meeting when it first started was all about russian adoption. i mean doesn't that further negate anything that rudy giuliani saying like we didn't know it was a russian woman, someone dealing, we didn't know we were dealing with russians. >> yeah. when you see the words from rudy giuliani compared to the words from the president himself, compared to the words in others, you often get not just in this instance, a confusing and at times muddled what the president's perception versus what his legal team is trying to say meeting was about or what other things were about. this is part of larger pattern. then you'll have the president say something or somebody else say something. you'll say isn't that at odds with what rudy giuliani's explanation was. >> can i ask, given mcgahn's close rela

mr. giuliani is dreaming if he thinks the report will be done and provided before september 1st.he report coming from mueller during the period after labor day, as you get closer to election. mueller has a trial coming up in september of mr. manafort here in washington, d.c. he's subpoenaed individuals to the grand jury and he's actively involved in the investigation. none of that has to stop and he won't stop doing any of that. i think with respect to the report and if he envisions any charges that come close to mr. trump or close associates or family, that's the kind of thing that he'll avoid as we are closer to the november elections. >> what if he concludes that rudy giuliani is stonywalling him right now, and that the negotiation continues for a few more weeks, all of a sudden it's october. can robert mueller drop a subpoena on the president in october or will he be precluded by doing so by virtue of this protocol. >> the protocol is not something that would preclude him. there are situations where he can subpoena someone. s i think subpoenaing the president close to electio

rudi giuliani is now mr trump's lawyer. he put out a statement.e worth mentioning that a few days ago mr giuliani generated a lot of publicity when he said ‘truth isn't truth‘. you can imagine what rebublicans would be saying if a democratic of publicity when he said ‘truth isn‘t truth‘. you can imagine what rebublicans would be saying if a democratic president were caught up in this. but they‘ve largely steeered clear of the white house today. mitt romney, former republican presidential candidate. strong language — though not directed at the president. a spokesperson for republican house speaker paul ryan and this was republican senatorjohn cornyn who was equally vague. all of this conduct looks like from what i‘ve seen so far has no relationship to the president and is related to the misconduct that has occurred outside of that should. another clip to play you — this is republican senator lindsey graham. any time your lawyer is convicted it is not a good thing. the bottom line is not a good thing. the bottom line is that i do not know what he is

mr. giuliani has suggested there is some elasticity in the definition of truth. in may he told the washington post that the mueller investigation, quote, may have a different version of the truth than we do. >>> meanwhile president trump is now comparing the russia investigation to the mccarthy hearings. in one of the series of early morning tweets on the subject mr. trump wrote, studied the late joseph mccarthy because we're now in a period with mueller and his gang that make joseph mccarthy look like a baby. rigged witch-hunt. mccarthy led an inquisition into an alleged communist infiltration into the u.s. government. they were later to be found a fraud and hoax. >>> john brennan is now threatening to sue president trump for stripping him of his security clearance. >> these are frightening times. he's drunk on power. he really. >> brennan told "meet the press" he's already spoken to several lawyers about his options. >> if my clearances and my reputation as i'm being pulled through the mud now, if that's the price we are going to pay to prevent donald trump fro

mr. giuliani. melania trump certainly isn't afraid to go it alone. her alleged affair, this time with a former playboy playmate, mrs. trump skipped a ride on marine one with her husband, instead taking her own motorcade to andrews air force base to meet him on air force one. >> people think and talk about me like, oh, melania, oh, poor melania. don't feel sorry for me. don't feel sorry for me. i -- i can handle everything. >> reporter: randi kaye. cnn, palm beach, florida. >>> always good to see you. i am chris cuomo. welcome to "prime time." hundreds at the white house for a musical protest. this ain't smiles and show tunes. she's spoiling for a fight. her history with trump is as long as it is ugly. the president is not in the white house but maybe watching "prime time." if so the invitation stands. listen or not and come onto this show and make your case. with the smart and concerned audience, sir. it would be good to explain the latest apparent in addition by tweet. now trump says that trump power meeting with the russian

mr. giuliani.n "the new york times" reported president trump didn't like his wife tuning into cnn aboard air force one, melania's office swiftly declared she watches any channel she wants. when he husband's family separation policy caused international outrage, melania trump went to see detention centers near the u.s.-mexico border for himself. >> how i can help for these children to reunite with their families. >> reporter: whether it's taking a separate motorcade to the "state of t state of the union, stealing the spotlight with that white hat moment or slapping her husband's hand away in public. >> everybody loves melania. they love melania. >> reporter: the president doesn't appear to mind. this independent streak could just be part of who this mysterious first lady actually is. >> i'm very strong. people, they don't really know me. people think and talk about me like, oh, melania, oh, poor melania. don't feel sorry for me. i can handle everything. >> reporter: now, of course, wolf, we remember

mr. giuliani said the president is open to talking to mr. mueller under limited conditions but in a new development said mr. trump would not sit for an interview after september 1 because it would interfere with the midterm elections. here to talk about all of it is the former assistant u.s. attorney with the eastern and southern district of new york and sam stein is back with us, politics editor of the daily beast. and sam, beginning with you, because you can say whatever you wish. is this just letting it fly? >> can i say whatever i wish? >> well, within reason, but it is a family broadcast. it is probably not professional i geuess. >> it is lettinging it fly. it is not a coherent legal strategy by any stretch. it is not an effective one and not even effective p.r. strategy. for a while it is clear that rudy giuliani is not there to serve the president as a lawyer in the traditional sense as a lawyer, but as a political hinchman, and part of the task, i can surmise from this is to muddy the waters and to insist that things that he said a m

mr. giuliani is putting his client in significant legal peril. if you look at what's going on right now, there are significant unforced errors. the situation with don mcgahn, there could be arguments either way as to whether or not the president wanted to waive privilege or whether he could or should. at the end of the day, that's not necessarily a bad strategy. what's utterly shocking is when you waive privilege and you find out that don mcgahn has been speaking with the special counsel's office for 30 hours and you're learning about it when you're reading it in "the new york times," that's absolutely shocking. now we're hearing that they think they can still claim executive privilege when i can tell you they absolutely cannot. the case law on this is clear. once waived, it's waived permanently. you know that don mcgahn did not speak for 30 hours. it had to be broken out in days. every single day the president's lawyers needed to be sitting down with either mcgahn or at least his attorney trying to figure out what in the world is going on. there

mr. giuliani is it inevitable that president trump will be impeached? >> hardly.that he won't. president trump is completely cleared. he had this cohen guy, he doesn't know anything about russian collusion, anything about obstruction. he's a massive liar. if anything it's turned very much in the president's favor. he'd only impeach him on political reasons and the american people would revolt against that. >> you have to admire how hard that guy hit the trump pro shop. he's got the jacket and the hat. back to news, it's inevitable trump won't be impeached and we're hearing the i-word more often and a general conversation whether the president will reach the scheduled calendar organic end of his term. well, joining us tonight gym warren, veteran print journalist and political commentator who was there. he covered the clinton impeachment trial for the chicago tribune. these days he's executive editor of the news start-up called news guard that will rate the voracity of news and information sites. and also joining our conversation is our friend steve kornacki. so mr.

mr. giuliani is coming from. if he's been well briefed or if he's spouting something off on a sunday morning program, but this is cut and dry. >> yes. >> all right. thank you very much. tom winter of nbc's investigation unit. thank you to you both. >>> it's day three of dl deliberations in the manafort trial. president trump is on a tweet storm calling mueller disgraced. we're going to talk about what the manafort verdict could mean for donald trump next. but first, melania trump attending a cyber bullying summit today. during the opening remarks she said children need guidance to use social media safely. >> let's face it. most children are more aware of the benefits and pitfalls of social media than some adults. but we still need to do all we can to provide them with information and tools for successful and safe online habits. >> now, when reporters asked the first lady about attacking cysi bullying in light of the president. her spokesperson says she's well aware of the criticism but that will not deter her fro