mr. giuliani just said is true. so let me say once again, andrea, attacking a man's family, there's one thing that brings this country together, i think. you can go after mr. cohen if that's their design, because mr. cohen is an adversary witness. what does his father-in-law and his wife have to do with anything other than the crime of witness tampering, intimidation and corrupt intent to try to deter mr. cohen from telling the truth? and i hope the senate and the house, they can vote a resolution of censure, and mr. giuliani can be indicted and certainly criminally investigated for doing what he just did, that is prima facie a crime. >> former prosecutors have been very clear with us, saying that what the president and giuliani have said is a text book case of witness tampering in plain sight. as you know, the law says whoever knowingly uses intimidation, threatens, or corruptly persuades another person, or attempts to do so, or engages in a misleading conduct, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for 20 ye

mr. giuliani is there. that would be the most likely candidate. >> jessica roth, come back. >>> lanny davis will join my colleague andrea mitchell today on the noon hour on msnbc. you'll want to watch that. >>> it's a real possibility parts of the government are going to stay closed for weeks, maybe even months. so real that the white house is planning contingencies. many agencies say they're already hurting, like the one supposed to be keeping you safe. we're talking with a former assistant director of the fbi about just how secure we are or may not be. hey, who are you? oh, hey jeff, i'm a car thief... what?! i'm here to steal your car because, well, that's my job. what? what?? what?! (laughing) what?? what?! what?! [crash] what?! haha, it happens. and if you've got cut-rate car insurance, paying for this could feel like getting robbed twice. so get allstate... and be better protected from mayhem... like me. ♪ this round is on me. hey, can you spot me? come on in! find your place, today, with silver sneak

mr. giuliani. but there are documents. there are e-mails and other folks recollection of how long the negotiations with moscow lasted, how long they attempt lasted. mueller will find it. mueller will know it. we will not learn it from rudy giuliani. >> i want to read you something that maggie haber man tweeted tonight. they expressed concern he is increasing prosecutors anger with the president and potentially creating a misimpression about the trump tower project in moscow. that seems to be on what was on donald trump jr.'s mind when he went on fox news earlier this evening and said, oh, he was a bad deal guy, basically, giving michael cohen, the coffee boy description after we all know that michael cohen briefed the president and his family ten times. so that is a lot of interactions with someone who wasn't a deal guy. >> with those concerns, those are concerns you have heard from allies of the president, especially outside advisers for months now questioning whether giuliani is actually being helpful to the president, w

mr. giuliani's public appearances. they also expressed concern that he is increasing prosecutors' anger with the president and potentially creating a misimpression about the trump tower project in moscow." that seems to be what was on donald trump jr.'s mind when he went on fox news earlier this evening and said oh, you know, he was a bad deal guy basically, giving michael cohen the coffee boy description after we all know that michael cohen briefed the president and his family ten times. so that's a lot of interactions with someone who wasn't a deal guy. >> absolutely. those concerns that maggie tweeted about there, those are concerns you have heard from allies of the president, especially outside advisers, for months now, questioning whether giuliani is actually being helpful to the president, wondering what his strategy is, questioning why the president has decided to keep him in this public relations role by going out on television. we saw for a period of time it seemed like he'd pulled back. we weren't seeing him

mr. giuliani. >> i would say he's been threatened by the truth. he's only been threatened by the truth. >> democrats meantime say not testifying is not an option for cohen and they are considering whether to subpoena him. >> we will get the testimony assure as night becomes day and day becomes night. >> cohen reports to prison thren march. joe any ernst is speakin out about painful moments she endured in the past. she says she was forced out as a survivor of mental and physical abuse following public reports of per divorce papers. she said i didn't want to share it with anybody. in the end of the "me too" survivors, i always believe every person is different and they will confront their demons when they are ready. i was not ready. >> she described an episode where her husband grabbed per by the throat and pounded her head. she also said she was raped during her time as a student at iowa state. ernst says she has and always will work hard to support people who have been in her shoes. >> i have always been a strong proponent of working for those sur

mr. giuliani now.y bad attorney for the president, or perhaps an even worse spokesman. he gives contradictory assessments of this a day after he talked about this on national tv? and let's remember, he quoted the president, saying this deal was going on till the day i won. it's hard to believe mr. giuliani when he quotes the president so precisely if he's prepared as an attorney or as a spokesman, he has to get his story straight. now for us to believe that never took place, he's really, really putting a lot on the american public to believe him. >> he left open the possibility that michael cohen and president trump may have talked at length about michael cohen's congressional testimony where we now know he lied. but he dismisses the significance of that. he says, so what. what do you think? >> i think you look at it as part of a larger picture of obstruction by the president of the united states. i mean, let's remember the twitter exchanges recently about mr. stone in which he talked about how it's go

mr. giuliani, you attack his father-in-law and allude to him being a criminal because he's from the ukraine. this is classic mob technique to send a signal to the individual who mr. trump has called a rat for telling the truth. that word "rat" comes directly out of organized crime. >> let's go right to intelligence reporter ken dilanian. what more do we know about this major move by senate intel? >> my sources tell me this subpoena reflects the mixed feelings. on the one hand, they are disgusted by the president's behavior. they firmly believe that the president is engaged in mafia-like tactics and is engaged in whimpering tampering. but they're not convinced that threats is the reason cohen postponed his testimony. they feel cohen has an obligation to talk to him about not only what happened behind the scenes in the trump campaign but about the russia investigation. because he's testified before and he lied to the senate intelligence committee. so they don't feel like whatever arrangement he has with federal prosecutors should impact the test money he should give before their committee and

mr. giuliani. mr. cohen had to put his family and their safety first. >> let me tell you the other thing. his father-in-law is a very rich guy. >> reporter: the president and rudy giuliani have been ramping up the rhetoric in recent weeks, targeting michael cohen's father-in-law in public fashion. >> in order to get a sentence reduced, he said i will give you information on the president. there is no evidence. but he should give information maybe on his father-in-law, because that's the one that people want to look at. >> reporter: last month, the president also referenced cohen's wife. >> his father-in-law, i thought was the guy that was the primary focus. well, what did he do? did he make a deal to keep his father-in-law out? did he make a deal to keep his wife who supposedly -- you can check it. did he make a deal to keep his wife out of trouble? >> reporter: a source says michael cohen's father-in-law and wife feel threatened by the comments coming from the president, including this tweet where the

mr. giuliani's statements. >> you also said these things take a long time. >> they do.e would know the outcome of this today is ridiculous. counterintelligence investigations as i mentioned, are intended to be secret. i'm confident the fbi would not share the fruits of it with mr. giuliani. >> new analysis, ashley, what if the fbi was investigating the russian leelection meddling and adding the president by possibility obstructing justice. was the collusion? what is your take? >> it could be the collusion. that is what i was thinking that both investigations are working together. i think we see multiple agencies conducting investigations and they have to compare the information and if they present that to the house and senate and they look at impeachment and look at the information gathered by the agencies and by all of the investigations and put it together and see if this was collusion or obstruction of justice or lying. those are the charges they will look at and i think we will see in the future. >> ashley merchant and chuck rosenberg, thank you for your insight. >>

mr. giuliani quoted mr. trump as saying during an interview with the "new york times." and then giuliani says, i did not say that." okay. this is on tape. then he says the "times" just made that quote up. the reporter. and then giuliani says i don't know if they made it up. what i was talking about was if he had those conversations they would not be criminal. what the hell is going on here, bradley? >> this is classic rudy giuliani and it's really sad to watch this. they're going write a case study one day on how not to represent the president of the united states and it's going to be all about rudy giuliani. you don't have these types of on the record discussions and these types of statements unless you know the details. why is the personal attorney, the personal representative for the president of the united states talking, riffing off the cuff? he should know the timeline backwards and forwards. it's not like this is the beginning of the investigation. they've already submitted written responses under penalty of perjury to the special counsel's office. they should kno

mr. giuliani. the president attempting to brush off those concerns. >> he says he's been threatened by you and mr. giuliani. he and his family have been threatened. >> no. i would say he's been threatened by the truth. he's only been threatened by the truth. >> a source telling cnn that cohen's wife and father-in-law feel threatened by comments of the president and rudy giuliani, trump's attorney. so let's listen to some of those comments, shall we? >> let me tell you the other thing. his father-in-law is a very rich guy, i hear. his father-in-law, i thought, was the guy that was the primary focus. well, what did he do? did he make a deal to keep his father-in-law out? did he make a deal to keep his wife, who supposedly -- maybe i'm wrong, but you can check him. did he make a deal to keep his wife out of trouble? he should give information maybe on his father-in-law because that's the one that people want to look at. because where does that money -- that's the moan in the family. >> his father-in-l

mr. giuliani as recently as this weekend as well as mr.ontinued investigation, by advice of counsel, by advice of counsel, mr. cohen's testimony will be postponed, he thanks mr. cummings for allowing him to appear before the committee. this is a time when mr. cohen had to put his family and their safety first. that is the statement. let's go now to michael smerconish. what's your reaction to that? >> it would have been high on that the ricks, brianna. i don't know if it had transpired as planned or if it would have been substantive and it would be must-watch television, that's for sure. i am more surprised by the stated rationale. i am more surprised by the threats against the family than i am that this was looked at with displeasure perhaps by the investigators and not just mueller and also the southern district who continue to look at the administration. so that's really the only surprise to me was the explanation given as to why it would be postponed. >> and you would want to know more about that, obviously, but when you look at the iss

mr. giuliani gave this weekend, saying the president took part in conversations about trump tower throughoutaign. it is the latest in a series of comments that giuliani has had to walk back. in an attempt to mitigate his remarks, mr. giuliani telling nbc news, quote, my recent statements about discussions during the 2016 campaign between michael cohen and then-candidate donald trump about a potential trump/moscow project were hypothetical. my comments did not represent the timing or circumstances of any such discussions. let's bring in darren samuelsson, the senior white house reporter at "politico" who wrote today's piece on the exasperated west wing. you write, in part, trump was apoplectic after a pair of weekend media interviews by his personal lawyer, when giuliani had discussions about the building of the trump tower in moscow during the campaign. a statement contradicting trump's public position. is this the tipping point? >> i don't think it is a tipping point for rudy. it's elevated, again, the concerns that have been there for a while. rudy's first interviews he gave with sean hann

mr. giuliani adding, this is a time where mr. cohen had to put his family and their safety first. the president today denied making any threats. >> i would say he's been threatened by the truth. he's only been threatened by the >> reporter: but he has called for cohen's father-in-law to be investigated even though he is not currently accused of any crime. >> he should give information maybe on his father-in-law because that's the one that people want to look at. >> reporter: and just this weekend another unfounded allegation from rudy giuliani. >> so it's okay to go after the father-in-law. >> now -- of course, it is. if the father-in-law is a criminal, we talked about ukrainians. his father was a ukrainian. >> that's not a crime. >> of course, it's not. i'm telling he's come from the ukraine. the reason that's important is because he may have ties to something called organized crime. >> reporter: cohen says those amount to threats, and he fears for his family's safety. and now democrats are considering a possible subpoena. they say they have offered michael cohen help with securi

mr. giuliani, welcome back to "meet the press," sir. >> good morning, chuck. how are you? >> i'm okay. let's start with the big kerfuffle over the last 48 hours with buzzfeed. there were a lot of questions about what happened between michael cohen and donald trump, the special counsel's office obviously pushed back on the buzzfeed story. so let's clear it up. on the record, once and for all, are you a hundred percent confident that the president never once asked michael cohen to do anything but tell the truth to congress? >> 100% certain of that. and also, i should add the buzzfeed story was a story that the president had counseled him or told him to lie and that there were tapes and texts and federal law enforcement sources, two of them, cited for it. i spent a great deal of the day on saturday with that because i knew from the very beginning it wasn't true. but i mean, to their credit, the justice department and the special counsel's office said that the story was inaccurate. the inaccuracy is there's no evidence that the president told him to lie. then to answer your question, categ

mr. giuliani." adding, "this is a time where mr. cohen had to put his family and their safety first." the president today denied making any threats. >> i would say he's been threatened by the truth. he's only been threatened by the truth. >> reporter: but he has called for cohen's father-in-law to be investigated, even though he is not currently accused of any crime. >> he should give information maybe on his father-in-law, because that's the one that people want to look at. >> reporter: and just this weekend, another unfounded allegation from rudy giuliani. >> so, it's okay to go after the father-in-law? >> of course it is. if the father-in-law is a criminal, we talked about ukrainians. his father-in-law is a ukrainian. >> that's not a crime. >> his father-in-law has millions and millions -- of course it's not. i'm telling you, he comes from the ukraine. this reason that is important is, he may have ties to something called organized crime. >> reporter: cohen says those amount to threats, and he fears for his family's safety. >> all right, cecilia vega with us live from the white hou

mr. giuliani, mr. cohen's appearance will be postponed to a later date. let's start at the white house with our correspondent abbi phillip. let's start with the pelosi versus trump here. we have six days to go until what was supposed to be the president's state of the the union. he now says in response to the speaker i'm not surprised. it's a shame. democrats don't seem to care about crime and violence across the border. >> reporter: that's right. he says that he's not surprised. that's in part because one of the strategies the white house had at the beginning of this day was to force nancy pelosi's hand. make her decide if she's going to allow the president to give his speech in the capitol or is she not. i think the white house realized pretty quickly that the ball had to be really left in her court. but now that that speech has been cancelled, it's historic event. the president of the united states typically gives a speech in the capitol, whether it's state of the union address or joint address to congress, at the beginning of the year. pretty much eve

mr. giuliani said the president should be able to correct the mueller report before any public release. you commit that would not happen? >> that will not happen. >> when asked if he would allow with the subpoena he said. >> if there was a fact chul basis for doing it and i couldn't say it violated established policies then i wouldn't interfere. >> barr defended the memo calling the obstruction fatally misconceived saying his concern was narrow in scope. democrats said the memo should be grounds for his recusal. >> asking us to trust you is not enough. >> i am not going to surrender the responsibility to get the title. >> our big reveal there 2017 conversation when trump after he turned down an offer made first by the president to israel to turn trump's legal defense team. >> he said bob mueller, how well do you know bob mooueller. i told him how they were good friends. he was interested in that. he wanted to know what i thought about mueller's integrity and so forth and so on. i said bob is a straight shooter and should be dealt with as such. >> now at least one democrat is considering

mr. giuliani. frk, articulating various conspiracy theories regarding mueller. in fact, fr, mueller is preparing to indict him. he should hire a competent attorney -- i have questions about the attorney he's hired now -- and he should remain able to accept that as well. >> apparently he is rethinking that. what are the potential ramifications if he decides not to accept that offer or at least, you know, remove himself from his initial, you know, offer that he would do it? what's at stake? >> he needs to think very carefully about that. there's already been talk that the special counsel is going to limit what he can testify to, so he needs to be very careful about appearing in public. and again, testifying under oath. any time your und oes and you're in attempt . you don't want him that he's potentially been given a pass on in a criminal investigation. it starts all sorts of issues. the passion of rudy giuliani sort of talking out both sides of his mouth, you notice how often he emphasizes cohen would be the guy that knows everything, trump is too busy. at the sa

mr. giuliani seem to make some news this morning that we had not heard about. >> russia just can't help themselves>> they can't help themselves because russia is the one conspiracy that they have this cloud over the american public. democrats and the media are the same. as we mentioned earlier, you have record low unemployment, all of these promises the president has been able to keep so what else are they going talk about. they can't talk about the issue simply because president trump will win everything the time when it comes down to the policy so every day for dealt with republicans offering solutions, democrats offering a soundbite so the media can keep that narrative running. >> i was watching that and i thought chuck todd are you mbc moscow real estate correspondent going on about trump. it's just bizarre. >> it seems like there's so many anchors like that who have an agenda. their goal should be to look back at the tim russert days. even if team he leaned left he had a brilliant way of confronting people with their own hypocrisy. chuck todd would rather protect people who share his worldvie

mr. giuliani. >> let me get your thaws about something at the top of this segment that a senior official hat giuliani's comments were not helping. that person may not be the only person because the "new york times" is reporting that several people close to mr. trump have grown exacerbated with the public appearances and expressed concern that he is increasing prosecutors's angers, if you will, with the president and creating a misimpression about the trump tower project in moscow. is giuliani using mueller's silence in a way so that doubt in a way that is helpful. if anything comes out of the mueller probe and we go into a level of impeachment everyone is talking about, is giuliani crowding doubt enough in congress to not know what it true and what is not? >> he may be trying, but he is not effective. now he's become synonymous with somebody who doesn't have a commitment to the truth. we know he lied several times. he doesn't -- he has been given bad until analysis. when he talked about the campaign finance law, he misstated it. he blurted out bad facts. for example, when he said the stor

mr. trump and his hired gun rudy giuliani to not only discredit this witness, but to by insinuation and noen family and to thereby to intimidate mr. cohen and discard his testimony. and it worked. my understanding is the family of mr. cohen is very upset and concerned by the climate, the toxic climate trump has created for mr. cohen and discouraged him strongly from testifying in open session. >> yeah, the irony is you have rudy giuliani bringing up the idea that the father-in-law may be involved in organized crime. and, again, he is working for donald trump, you know, who knows a thing or two about new york real estate. do you believe that the president or rudy giuliani, that they've actually engaged in witness tampering? that's obviously something specific and legal. >> if they haven't crossed that line, they've come perilously close. and their behavior, ironically, when they're talking about the mob, looks a lot like how mob behavior looks like. and it's a shameful moment when the presidency of the united states. >> congressman connelly, if you would just stay with us, i'm joined by jef

mr. rudy giuliani made that claim. claiming these talks happen as late as 2016, nobody had gone on the record saying that. either he knows something that nobody else knows and has released publicly about these talks. either way it is really head scratching behavior from the lawyer for the president. >> i know we keep on trying to apply some sort of logic of the things that come out of that man's mouth. is there a logic to it, chuck, or is he just talking? >> he's just talking, katy. i think that's as usual as being kind and thoughtful. it is also entirely possible that he's plain wrong, he gets his law wrong and facts wrong. the credible evidence that we have is that, that really comes from betsy reporting and michael cohen's plea agreement which he acknowledged of the conversation of building the moscow project extended through the middle of 2016 and not through the end of 2016. does it matter? yeah, it matters. as election day gets closer, the president continues to make perplexing and troubling comments about russia

mr. giuliani, as recently as this weekend, mr. cohen's appearance will be postponed to a later date. let's start with what we know. we have dana bash up here with me. what sort of threats? we have seen some of them on twitter and on tv. >> yeah, and this came as a major surprise for democrats and republicans. they had been in discussions with cohen's representatives with the special counsel's office about this testimony going forward. with no expectation that this was going to be delayed in light of these concerns when michael cohen is a representative saying threats to michael cohen's family in light of the president saying, raising questions about michael cohen's father-in-law, rudy giuliani doing the same thing. remarkable that michael cohen is say iing buzz of the president' statements, his family's security is an issue here and the reason why he's scrapping this high profile hearing scheduled for february 7th. now yesterday elijah cummings, the chairman of this committee, i asked him about concerns that republicans had raised that this testimony would not be able to detail much

mr. giuliani said on tv with a big hefty grain of salt. have a conversation a month ago with felix sadir, a businessman the connective tissue. >> do you trust him? >> more than rudy giuliani about the negotiations. he was involved in them and rudy was not. saidir said he was trying to facilitate the interests in the tower and and that ended after the nomination and giuliani is saying that could have gone as late as november. e., either giuliani is saying thing hes didn't know and b., they don't have a clear understanding within the president's legal team about what was actually being said. >> ben, this is the problem. he was asked by chuck todd, in this room yesterday, is this what you wrote in the answers to the questions from mueller? is this what the president wrote as his answers and he said, yes that is where we answered it. and in other words, he said this is tracking what the president said under oath. they were working on this business deal right until the election. >> a few things. if anybody but rudy giuliani had said this, it wou

mr. giuliani told the new york times.he same day he told jake tapper that his client wasn't talking to people in russia about anything. he didn't talk to people in russia at all. yesterday, he tried to walk it back. so what did he say today and how many different answers had giuliani given about this over the course of the last 36 hours. >> he spoke to at least three news outlets on sunday and tried to clarify today. let's go with yesterday. the takeaway throughout all the interviews yesterday seemed to be the same. the takeaway was it was possible that donald trump had discussions relating to trump tower moscow throughout 2016 during the campaign and up to the election itself and he said discussions were going on from the day he announced his candidacy to the day he won. earlier today the story started changing and evolving. he said the president had no recollecti recollection, discussions since there were no records documenting any of the conversations and of course it was later that he released the full, more formal st

mr. giuliani's public appearances and expressed concern that he is increasing prosecutors' anger with the president and creating a misimpression in moscow. i wonder if rudy giuliani is confusing the public, what was his job? >> confusing the public. to echo a little bit of what jennifer was saying, i think it is part of the strategy. donald trump's team wants all of this to seem pretty muddy. they don't want the facts to be black and white. they want it to seem partisan. they want you to think that you knew the stuff before even as it comes out anew. and the goal for so much of this is to just create confusion. this is the way that i think rudy giuliani is looking at it as he plays donald trump's lawyer on tv is to think of this as a political problem, not a criminal one. and that the court of public opinion, the court of capitol hill is where this legal battle will be ultimately won or lost. so to the extent that he can sort of bit by bit move the goal posts or make you think you might have known that already or confuse you about who said what when, that ultimately i think rebounds over

mr. giuliani.nt trump who has called co cannen a rat has urged the authorities to toss the book at him while suggesting they investigate his father in law. >> he's in trouble on some loans and fraud and taxi cabs and stuff i know-nothing about. and in order to get his sentence reduced, he says i have an idea, i'll give you information on the president. well, there is no information but he should give information maybe on his father in law because that's the one that people want to look at because where does that money -- that's the money in the family and i guess he didn't want to talk about his father in law. he's trying to get his sentence reduced. it's pretty sad. it's weak. >> as trump's personal lawyer and fixer, he's in a position to share everything about his old boss and during his sentencing hearing, he told the court time and time again i felt it was my duty to cover up his dirty deeds and just last month cohen admitted breaking campaign finance laws and did that at the direction of the p

mr. giuliani knows more than any of the rest of us at this point in terms of what may be coming in futureeks. >> giuliani also said he represents only president trump, not the trump campaign. >>> president trump is calling for a space-based missile defense system. the call the pentagon yesterday where a new plan was built to build a layer of sensors in space that could quickly detect, track, and shoot down incoming missiles. defense department officials say using space technology in missile-defense is imperative to keep the u.s. safe. >> we are committed to establishing a missile-defense program and we will never negotiate our right to do this. >> the russian government responded saying that it will ramp up global tensions. >>> it is 5:37. a federal judge says pg&e is lack of insulated power conductors played a role in causing some of california's recentre disasters. the judge says the uninsulated conductors dropped sparks in the grass with trees or branches fell on powerlines. the judge settles us said that falling branches is the single most recurring cause of wildfires the past two yea

mr. giuliani," this is a movie script, "as well as mr. cohen's continued cooperation with ongoing investigations, by advice of counsel mr. cohen's appearance will be postponed to a later date. this is a time where mr. cohen had to put his family and their safety first." last week on this network davis made a similar accusation. >> there's only one person in the country, one president in our history, that would threaten family as a tactic to make fear of somebody he calls a rat for telling the truth. and that's president trump. >> today the president weighed in on this. >> i would say he's been threatened by the truth. he's only been threatened by the truth. and he doesn't want to do that probably for me or other of his clients. he has other clients also, i assume. and he doesn't want to tell the truth for me or other of his clients. >> just to review here, michael cohen has already pleaded guilty to campaign finance violations which he says occurred under trump's direction. he admitted to lying to congress about the trump tower negotiatio

mr. giuliani as recently as this weekend, as well as mr.ohen's continued cooperation with ongoing investigation." the president was asked about that accusation today. here's what he said. >> i would say he has been threatened by the truth. he has only been threatened by the truth. he doesn't want to do that probably for me or other of his clients. he has other clients also, i assume. he doesn't want to tell the truth from me or other of his clients. >> despite the delay the come of the committee chairman says he's confident that cohen will still testify. >> i promise you we will hear from mr. cohen. we will get the testimony. as true as night becomes day in day becomes night. >> the committee is running out of time but says cohen must report to prison to begin serving his three-year sentence on march 6, shannon. >> shannon: there's been talk of bringing him out of prison for a day or to testify. all right, kristin, thank you very much. okay on the issue of the shutdown, senate will vote on two possible measures to re-reopen the government t

mr. giuliani's public appearances. they increased concern that he is potentially creates misconception about the trump tower in moscow. donald trump jr. denied they knew anything about the project in an interview with fox news. >> when was the last discussion about this trump tower deal? because rudy got everybody really confused. he goes on "meet the press" and says it could have been right through the election. then he said he was talking in hypothetical terms today. >> i don't know. i don't talk about things i don't know about. unfortunately that sometimes happens, no different than anybody else. this wasn't a deal. we don't know the developer. we don't know the site. we don't know anything about it. ultimately it was michael cohen essentially trying to get a deal done. i don't think anyone took it all that seriously. that's the reality of what went on. >> in september of 2017, trump jr. testified he knew little about the project except that his father signed a letter of intent. >> new details about the buzzfeed sto

mr. giuliani, said the president should be able to correct the mueller report before any public release. so, in other words, he could take this investigative report, put his own spin on it before its release. you commit that would not happen if you're attorney general? >> that will not happen. >> uh-oh. is the president having some buyer's remorse tonight? after all, we all know what happens when he sours on his a.g. >> i think of a great man and i want to just introduce you to him for a second. do you know who i'm talking about? senator jeff sessions! i told you before, i'm very disappointed with the attorney general. but we will see what happens. time will tell. time will tell. the attorney general made a terrible mistake when he did this and when he recused himself or he should have certainly let us know if he was going to recuse himself and we would have used a -- put a different attorney general in. so he made what i consider to be a very terrible mistake for the country. he took the job and then he said, i'm going to recuse myself. and i said, what kind of a man is this? and, by th

mr. giuliani is confused here.here is a strategy here in your view to deliberately muddy the waters because that's a tactic the president himself used with this investigation. >> he may be trying to soften the grounds for future revelations. he's botching it so badly he's almost making the case against the president. it's unfortunate. giuliani was known for his precision. not to mention his magnificent larger than life heroics. this is a man who still has an honorary knighthood from the british order. his legacy as the man who rose above 9/11 seems far away now. >> this is a former u.s. attorney for the southern district, a former mayor, all he did for the city and country after 9/11. he's quoted in a new yorker piece saying, i'm afraid it will be on my gravestone, rudy giuliani, he lied for trump. if it is, why do i care? i'll be dead. what changed? >> he has one big problem. it is increasingly clear that the president lied throughout the campaign about his relationship with russia, that the negotiations were goin

mr. giuliani, the lead prosecutor, the state's attorney, the guy that has all the weapons and said can youbefore you submit it to the court so that we can correct it, he would have laughed at him the way we're laughing now. >> you don think he would have gotten the report early? >> no, no. >> didn't involve rudy giuliani just handing out special evidence. >> no, didn't happen. >> thank you for joining us twice within the hour. >> you got it my friend. >> yes, sir. now up next, very special. who needs to fall back. tom, liza and harry smith along with something special for msnbc moms, next. cipeal for msnbc moms, next if you're 65 or older, even if you're healthy, you may be at increased risk for pneumococcal pneumonia - a potentially serious bacterial lung disease that can disrupt your life for weeks. in severe cases, pneumococcal pneumonia can put you in the hospital. it may take weeks to recover making you miss out on the things you enjoy most. just one dose of the prevnar 13® vaccine can help protect you from pneumococcal pneumonia. it's not a yearly shot. prevnar 13® is approved for ad

mr. giuliani on cnn. and i want to read to you a tweet from the noted harvard law school professor lawrence tribe. he says, "barr seems to believe that the special counsel regs mean that a mueller decision not to indict trump by virtue of the year 2000 office of legal counsel memo, would justify barr's bottling up any report about trump's criminal or impeachable offenses. that's legally dubious and constitutionally horrible." joyce, as you know, people came away with a generally favorable view of mr. barr and having said the right things in their view yesterday about his willingness to protect the work of his friend of 30 years, bob mueller. but it was whether or not he was going to protect the work product, the report, assuming there will be one. do you share professor tribe's concern? >> well, i think it's an interesting system, brian. what we all hoped we would hear would be an unequivocable commitment from barr, he would release the report with proper redactions relating to information about ongoing i

mr. giuliani is trying to get ahead of something, moving up the goal posts and talking about collusion may have happened but it didn't happen with the president is maybe a sign that he knows something that the rest of us don't about what mueller knows. we do know that giuliani and the president's other lawyers have been in constant contact with the mueller team. so, maybe that's a sign that -- of where things are going and where the public may soon know about the collusion question and whether people around the president and his inner circle were involved in discussions with the russians. we already know that president trump's campaign manager paul manafort was sharing polling data with russian operatives. maybe that's a sign that we're getting closer to collusion but giuliani is trying to draw a bright red line between people on the campaign and the president himself, to protect the president from mueller's probe into collusion and throw under the bus some of the president's close advisers and close confidants. >> toluse, paul, good to have both of you on. thank you. >>> inflicting financ

mr. giuliani may be talking about, and it is not at all clear from what you just read, he is not talking about counterintelligence investigations at the fbi that i know of and it's a ridiculous statement. >> hey, barb, as a veteran ba former fed, what sticks out to you most?ed >> well, as frank has said, truly extraordinary that the chief executive of our nation, the commander in chief of our armed forces, was someone who was considered the target of a counterintelligence id investigation.nt that fact alone is extraordinary, but one thing that i think is quite likely is that we have all of these public facts that we know.ve it is quite likely that the fbi had additional facts as well that caused them to make this decision to open this investigation. i can imagine that agents were extremely reluctant to open an investigation against the president of the united states and would do so only after extreme scrutiny and very high level approval. and so there's certain things that we know. the triggering event, perhaps, the firing of jim comey and statements mad, to lester holt but additional fa

mr. giuliani said the president should be able to correct the mueller report before any public release. >> that will not >> now barr faced questions on other issues, including immigration and marijuana. and on the second one, barr said he wouldn't go after companies in states where it's lal b he said congress needs to step up and take action on the issu j >> and marijuana stocks shot straight up today. >>> an official tells nbc news tonight the economic loss from the government shutdown should be worse than thought. saying each week the government could lose a tenth of a percent on gdp. a number of republicans went to the white house today. democrats had been invited but ne of them attended. >> everyone can ask, is he inviting people to 1600 pennsylvania avenue to try to solve the problem or create a photo op? ersion e passed their that had 5.6 billion in it for border security.e the senid not pass that. so now we have to find ami comp. >>> meanwhile today a federal judge in d.c. denied a reque from unions, including air traffic controllers to force the vernment to pay workers who are on

mr. giuliani quoted mr. trump as saying during an interview during "the new york times." so it does seem like he's trying to extend that window. >> you know how on "meet the press" he said truth isn't truth? apparently conversations aren't conversations either. seriously. either they're hypothetical or they're not. or he's having them or they're not. i would like to second the the point barbara made that perhaps because they are rational actors, the president, rudy giuliani, and so on, this has to be a strategy to get the information out there that either the conversations happened well until i guess late in 2016 or they didn't, that something might be coming out to confirm the information and he's trying to blunt the potential fallback for the campaign that it would come out. it's the only real way to explain these continue continue dictions. >> whatever michael cohen was up to the president was only tangentially involved. the case that giuliani is making does seem to matter for ultimately what we learn about this very crucial deal is essentially that whatever cohen was

mr. giuliani as recently as this weekend, as well as mr.'s cooperation with ongoing investigation. by advice of counsel, mr. cohen's appearance will be postponed until a later date. including things like this, lying to reduce his jail time. watch father-in-law. and the president uses fox news to deliver threats to michael cohen and his family. >> in order to get his sentenced reduced, he says, i have an idea. i'll give you some information on the president. well, there is no information. but he should give information, maybe on his father-in-law, because that's the one that people want to look at. because where does that money -- that's the money in the family. i guess he didn't want to talk about his father-in-law. he's trying to get his sentenced reduced. it's pretty sad. it's weak and it's very sad to watch a thing like that. i couldn't care less. >> what is his father-in-law's name? >> i don't know but you'll find out and you'll look into it because nobody knows what's going on over there. >> in a joint statement the chairman of the hou

mr. giuliani quoted mr. trump as saying during an interview with the "times." so giuliani quotes donald trump as saying the moscow trump tower discussion -- deal discussion was, "going on from the day i announced to the day i won." and, glenn, that lasted about 24 hours when later today, rudy giuliani put out a statement saying, oh, i didn't mean that, i didn't mean to be quoting him saying those words. he never exactly said those words, and so, you know, we're now back -- giuliani wants us to forget we ever heard that, forget we ever heard from donald trump's mouth "from the day i announced to the day i won." and so the method that giuliani is employing here risks -- apparently risks madness at every moment. >> yeah, so i did my best, lawrence, to try to come up with some kind of a theory that was reasonable and rational for why giuliani was trying to draw the sting, but then as you note, he takes that stinger and reinserts it into his own arm. so it's -- it's -- but here's the other thing that might be going on, lawrence. listen, the american people love a smo