mr. givner. i'm turning into mr. chatfield my 150-word testimony that i will remail so you don't have to rekey it, introducing typos. i'm sorry, can you hand me that copy back? never mind, i found what i was looking for. so you will recall that when i was here, in october, i testified that 1040 doesn't apply and i also testified quite strongly, both here and at the sunshine task force that c3-699-13 doesn't apply either. i have been denied access to these records for two years. regarding access to litigation states, "advice and compliance with, analysis of, and opinion concerning liability under -- or any communication otherwise concerning the california public records act the ralph m. brown act, political reform act and san francisco ethics code or this ordinance," are -- pay atection to this, are public records. subject to disclosure. notably, section 6253c of sippra gives agencies ten days to notify requesters, whether the requested records are exempt or disclosable and that if an agency fails to notify the reques

mr. givner. >> so your question? >> are we obligated to produce confidential documents in redacted form? if they contain confidential information should they be withheld? >> i think miss herrick's approach and suggestion was correct if there is a document that contains a little bit of confidential information that can be meaningfully redacted and a chunk of information is public, to produce the public portion. just to make sure that all the commissioners are on the same page, i believe by -- in reaching the conclusion that the documents are public, non-redacted portions of the document are public, you are concluding both that these documents -- these redacted records are not records of an ethics commission's investigation or the controller's investigation and also they are not covered by the official information privilege. i think that is miss herrick's recommendation to you. >> that we find that they are not part of -- in reacted form part of the official exemption >> could you just -- i got the first part that the

mr. givner? >> just jumping in and following on what i said earlier. mr. st. croix is right. and in that the city, when we such a sunshine complaint, the department is not required to produce page after page of entire redacted information. but if there is substantive information in the document, and can be revealed with minor -- released with minor redactions, that is when we would suggest redacting. so there is a fair amount of judgment in that. and that goes to commissioner studley's point. >> we are not -- are we prohibited from releasing a document with no substance? >> i think when this document is produced, in my view it would fall on the end of the redactions that i would categorize as so severe as to be virtually encompassing the entire document. because miss herrick conducted this investigation for us, because i didn't find the information that was not redacted to be privileged, i think in this instance, production is appropriate. but i certainly do not fault the commission for not producing a document in this form, which the public can evaluate it once they see it,

mr. givner to go over the standard. i have printed

mr. givner to go over the standard. i have printed out for myself the relevant sections. but to recap procedurally what happened, the miss herrick reviewed and determined that the redacted portion was privileged. that was covered by state law and/or local ordinances that protect the disclosure of this information, including c3.699-13a. her proposal i believe is to produce the information as redacted. >> not having that section

mr. givner to go over the standard. i have printed out for myself the relevant sections. but to recap procedurally what happened, the miss herrick reviewed and determined that the redacted portion was privileged. that was covered by state law and/or local ordinances that protect the disclosure of this information, including c3.699-13a. her proposal i believe is to produce the information as redacted. >> not having that section at my fingertips, or in mind, and i don't -- but it's hard for me to make a judgment on this without knowing what that privilege -- knowing more about the nature of that privilege that would require that certain information be redacted. >> i am going back to her memo as well. this is the longer one. >> thanks. >> following up on commissioner studley's question, is the privileged standard that we're looking at the one we're talking about all notes, preliminary reports? controller's benchmark studies, audits, investigations and other reports shall be confidential? >> that is -- >> that is the first part of it. >> first part. >> and the second quarter