mr. goldenkoff. >> yes. >> gao has reported that higher response rates save money. can you try to explain that for us? >> sure. the most cost effective way to count people is when they fill out the questionnaire that's either mailed to them or when they self-respond via the internet. every time -- and if they don't self-respond through either of those methods. then the census bureau has to send out enumerators to knock on their doors, and as many as six times. and so you can see how costs add up very quickly. it's both in terms of the time that the enumerators are paid for, the wages they earn, as well as for the mileage they're reimbursed. so the most cost effective way of conducting the census is to get up to increase that initial count. >> all right. gentleman yields back. mr. powner, i'm sitting here trying to figure out whether anything could be more inherently predictable than the decennial census. i'm struggling to think of something you see that far in advance that's coming. so not to ask this in too sophisticated of a way, but how the hell did we get here?

mr. goldenkoff, panel one with secretary ross, it got a little intense in some of the questions that were asked. and part of the issue is that census bureau has, i think, pretty evident poor track record in addressing flaws and problems that have been identified by the oig office and the gao. would you like to enlighten us a little bit on this relationship between your office and the census bureau and their willingness to follow up on the things that you have suggested? >> sure. in that respect, you know, we're encouraged by a willingness to work with us and other stakeholder groups. just some examples of the way we engage the census bureau on a monthly basis, we meet with the acting director. >> this hearing on the 2020 census is available on c-span.org. leaving the last few minutes for a conference on countering violent extremism in qatar, iran, and the muslim brotherhood, featuring lawmakers and former intelligence officials. house homeland security committee chair mike mccaul, david petraeus, and former white house strategist steve bannon. coming up shortly, former defense secretary l