mr. gruber? >> i think neither lazewski nor i can talk about the tasks in the next couple weeks. the government said they'd have it up and running. if they don't the issues mr. lazewski are real ones and the government has to figure out how to help those whose policies are canceled. let's not panic yet. if it's not ready in five weeks we need to raise these issues. >> ifill: bob lazewski, a health industry consultant and jonathan gruber of m.i.t., thank you very much. >> my pleasure. >> thank you, gwen. >> woodruff: the criticism over u.s. surveillance programs at home and abroad continued this afternoon at a house intelligence committee hearing. but the directors of national intelligence and the national security agency pushed back. >> one of the first things i learned in intel school in 1963 is that this is the fundamental giveen in the intelligence. >> woodruff: that fundamental according to director of national intelligence james clapper, is learning the intentions of foreign leaders, even if it means spying on allies. what's more, he told today's house hearing it's a two-way

mr. gruber, let me begin with you. i have tried for weeks now to get my head around these insurance exchanges and how and if they will actually work. it feels to me like an awful lot has to go right. did it go right in massachusetts? did they work? >> they absolutely did. i urge your viewers to go on ma-melt connecter.org tomorrow and see how the exchange works. it worked very well, it was hard work in the beginning, there were glitches. but it provided an organized shopping experience, that provides favor. it is an introduction into the insurance market and prices have grown slowly on the connecter. so i think it worked well and is a good shopping experience for consumers. >> and many worry is it too good to be true? and if it saves businesses money will it cost me money, can you say whether or not that is indeed the case? >> yes, well, massachusetts is a different example, it was a very different bipartisan piece of legislation. it was a market this that was very damaged. most states are nowhere near as bad off asth

mr. gruber, please. welcome to the program. you heard my little intro. with all due modesty, those are my intro. what say you? >> you're repeating the same uninformed right-wing talking point people say all the time about this law. you're not understanding the law. this law is a private based expanse of health insurance based on ideas developed bit heritage foundation in the early 1990s. >> with all due respect, the heritage foundation never had these elaborate controls and planning and you may have label me a right-winger, i understand, all is fair in love and war, you look where the insurance plans are one size fits all, no distinction between them, i don't see how this is not government run, jonathan. that's all i'm saying. >> how can you say there's no difference between them? have you looked at the massachusetts plans all run by private health insurance plans. you really aren't giving a fact based perspective on the law. that's the problem. people need to know the facts of what this law does. >> matt welch, want to hear from you on this. >> i think

gruber, a professor of economics at m.i.t. gentlemen, great to have you with us tonight. mr.h, what was it like rolling out the health care plan in massachusetts and your thoughts on what we are seeing right now as this unfolds? >> it was very controversial. it had lots of people throwing political rocks at it from all directions. it didn't go quickly out of the gate. it took time to build up. people had to become familiar with it. people needed time to shop, to look, to understand their choices, and five to six years later, the law is working well. we're actually feeling a little lonely up here in massachusetts these days since for the five years after it passed, it seemed like the "wall street journal" and the conservative media had to have at least one big article a week telling everybody how bad it was and since the election a year ago, we feel a little bit like the maytag repairman now because it's very clear in massachusetts the law is working well, and i think that's what the country can look forward to with the affordable care act once we get over this very difficult