. >> now to the matter of mr. gulen. what happened between you and him? >> after i became prime minister, i had not had any meetings with him other than a few phone conversations. i had conversations with him when i was mayor of istanbul. during my tenure as prime minister, we had good relations with the group for the first two terms. the real problem began after 2011, after the referendum for the amendment to the constitution. there was an effort to take away some power. this effort involved the police, security forces, and the judiciary. my observation now, in hindsight, is that the efforts were to consolidate this power in the security forces and the judiciary. the first step that they took was against the under secretary of the national intelligence agency about the meetings that were going on in oslo. these were steps taken against the undersecretary to distance the undersecretary of the national intelligence agency. they were unacceptable to me. the oslo talks were talks expressing some good intentions. national intelligence agency of any country ca