mr. gunderson, welcome home. >> thank you very much. >> i'd like to remind you that iowa used to be part of wisconsin territory, but we beat you into the united states by two years. and i won't get into that. but i wasn't clear from your testimony whether your concerns are that on behalf of your member institutions, you are opposed to the executive order in itself or you are opposed to the implementation of the executive order. >> great question because i'm not sure we're opposed to either. i mean i was disappointed that an executive order would preempt all the bipartisan efforts to reach consensus here on the hill. that was my disappointment. second, what i have lifted up is that the executive order, if it is developed with all of us and all of you and working out the kinks and the issues that need to be defined, this could be good, but we've got to deal with the two big issues, a complaint process and a calculation of the information for the veteran on graduation rates, academic achievement, et cetera, in ways that works for the veterans and works for higher education. if we do that to

mr. gunderson said, all schools should be measured by the same standards. no more, no less. when the administration and congress apply such standards to all post secondary institutions, we applaud their hard work. i think that's what we're trying to get to here is a system of transparency that holds all institutions getting federal dollars accountable. but we also have to be aware of where the lion's share of that funding is going and making sure people aren't being misled into pursuing education they have no realistic expectation of completing or getting a good paying job. when you look at the default rates on these loans and on these payments, there is another highly disproportionate figure that stands out. i'm not trying to pick on anybody. i think all of these institutions have a place in the portfolio of educational services to veterans. but we also can't ignore some of these realities. i think, sir, my point was on a compliance survey or on a review at a school, it's difficult to see those predatory practices. i'm basically a one-person operation in terms of profession

mr. gunderson, you mentioned ecpi university. and it sounds like they're have a lot of success. i mean in -- is there something that they're doing differently that we should be paying attention to? and also, i think every one of us here would agree if there are bad apples out there, do we have the tools to deal with those now currently in place? >> you know, one of the things i enjoy every day is when i hear a new news release that frankly is going after one of our schools. not because i enjoy that they go after our schools, but because it confirms your point, that the tools are already there to go after those schools engaged in misconduct if it is used. so we ought to start with that. now what ecpi has done, which is go above and beyond the federal and the state minimums to establish a voluntary set of best practices. and if ecpi were sitting here today rather than steve gunderson, what they would tell you is you know what? when we're engaged in on-site education of veterans, all we need do is screw up once and that commander will never again direct any of his enlistees to our

mr. gunderson is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman and members of the committee. i'm delighted to return back and speak to you on this issue that is important to you and it's about the to us. well are honored to be able to say that over 152,000 veterans have attended our schools since the enactment of the post-9/11 gi bill. we are proud of that and we are proud of them. as a sector we have engaged with the subcommittee and others to identify protocols that best meet the academic needs of our veterans. as you know on january 31st, apscu joined with others in letters to this committee and the senate committee supporting two very basic but critical ideas for ensuring quality educational experience -- increased educational counseling and a protocol to ensure that legitimate complaints are heard and resolved. we have also been working with others in this committee and in the senate to develop a bipartisan consensus around the best protocols for protection of veterans' education experience. so you can imagine that we were a bit sur

mr. gunderson, given all the variables in student demographics, the availability of jobs is it reasonable to use data such as salaries to judge the quality of a school's education? could you just discuss a little bit of the about the variables that you see and also if you could follow up on the question that asked mrs. bectel as well. >> when you ask the first panel that, i put down some notes that i think would be very helpful in college navigator to the typical veteran who's trying to make a deigs, one of them is in placement, in employment and -- -- [ no audio ] [ no audio ] [ no audio ] >> what would the data, the current data, is it valuable to what extent will this create additional administrative burden for the school? does that information valuable for students that are looking to apply at your school? >> well, there certainly is an i normous amount of data and also if you look at the voluntary system of accountability that may be asking institutions to participate in. you'll find that there's a lot of really useful and -- for anyone including veterans. i think the issue that i'm

mr. gunderson, given all of the variables in student demographics, the availability of jobs and is it reasonable to use data such as salaries to judge the quality of a school's education and could you discuss a little bit about the variables and what you see and also follow-up a bit on the question that asked her as well. >> when you asked the first panel that question, i put down notes of things they think would be helpful to the typical veteran who is trying to make a decision. one is placement in employment. [ no audio ] >> the second would be a percent of graduates that way you will look at -- [inaudible]. for example, i had mentioned to you earlier they they are pretty much constant. let's look at an academic schedule and flexibility. they are working hard. >> thank you. this is for anyone on the panel. college data, the education that we talked about earlier, how many more will the executive orders require and what would the data print out. it's a little bit. to the extent will this order create for school. is that information valuable for students to look? >> well, there is an enormous am

mr. gunderson said the number one complaint he received at the school down in virginia was payment from the v.a. we're talking about aggressive or deceptive actions here. is there any way, do we have any categories? is this what the kexecutive ordr is requesting? any comments? >> we don't have the database, but we have the data points. every time we did a visit, we would know what we have seen and what we done. that was transmitted to v.a. we don't have nationwide database. i don't believe v.a. does. i'm not sure. >> mr. chairman, i'm not sure if we have a database to get at what you're asking. again, as these things are identified as we go along, the more serious issues are addressed. smaller issues are addressed that aren't to the degree of withdrawal or suspension of a school. there's a lot of corrective actions that happen along the way. >> i'm trying to find if the number one complaint that we heard from all three panels, the one that was mentioned was payment. m problems that we are hearing about that veterans are experiencing. what we're hearing is aggressive tactics, deceptive pract