. >> mr. hayon. >> what is the penalty, once whomever we determine to be the respondent here, what is, you know, what is the penalty for the violation? >> willful or otherwise? >> no penalty, for a non-willful violation. >> so then, you know, in terms of that, what difference because it make? it does not make any difference at all and i do agree with the idea that whoever is the head of the department is responsible for whatever takes place at the department. and in the sense of the buck stops here. but, while i have the floor i just want to say one thing, i think that i am the only person on this commission who really is just your average citizen and i am just an old lady from the richmond district and you know. >> my wife is going to get mad at you saying that. >> we live in the richmond. and my concern and i will voice it, and i agree that technically and legally there has been a violation. but, as a citizen of the city, i mean, who is looking out for my privacy? it seems to me that the sunshine

mr. st. croix, just automatically took it upon himself to decide that the commissioner hayon's actions in my hearing were without doubt, and although, his, logic is, and escapes me. and nor did she violate, as... of the campaign because she did not have a personal professional or a business relationship with mr. herrera and that is false, she is a former library commissioner and she is the city librarian and basically she was participating in the same fraud relating to the friends of the san francisco public library that i have been fighting for the last five years of the library commission. >> for her to sit here, and side with the library and, then disenagain you yusly at the end say that i don't want to appear that i have a conflict of interest. i will not vote, i don't even think that you knew what to do with that because you were all sitting there going,... she wanted to have her cake and eat it too and she wanted to stand up for something that she herself had done and then say that she was not in a conflict because she did not vote. >> matters appearing or not appearing on the, i am so

mr. herrera here taking a position to defend himself unnecessarily, wasting our time. there can be a solution. thank you very much. commissioner hayon? >> well, first, number one, the comment about holding the public inferior, i definitely would ~, not to say that is our point of view, and i think tonight was a perfect example of how important public comment is in terms of swaying a commission and swaying -- and helping to make a decision. so, i don't think that is what this discussion is about. i do have a question about the wi-fi aspect. is that something -- that is feasible since it's so commonplace now. >> i do think that it may be feasible. we went with the best advice we had from i-t. i'm not trying to draw direct parallel, but i subscribed to mlb premium because i love the giants. and the first night i got it on my blu-ray [speaker not understood] and it kind of went like this. ~ in the middle of the game. i can tell you the opinion of our i-t people is if we want to do wi-fi, if we want to do wi-fi presentations, we do hard wire. we still do that at the library, offer both. at the library, we have tons of wi-fi for you, but

mr. herrera has sustained his burden of proof to showing that there was no violation of the sunshine ordinance. ~ commissioner renne >> is there a second? >> i second. >> commissioner hayon? >> i would like to ask to be recused from this vote as a former library commissioner. i don't want there to be any appearance of a conflict of interest. >> kind of should have done that before we he started discussing the question. >> oh, okay. so, what does that mean? >> you can still -- >> we would have to have a vote on the recusal. it would have been preferable to do it before, but i think if the commission feels like it is appropriate to recuse you, it's better to do it now than not at all. >> i'd move that commissioner hayon be permitted to abstain if she wishes to abstain. thaictionv. >> she has to be recused, not abstain. ~ >> i'm sorry, recused ~. >> i second. >> public comment? >> public comment. >>> yes. [inaudible]. because of the fact you commission operate under robert's rules of order, the chair cannot make a motion nor can he second a motion. it has to be first or second by one of the other commissioners. thank you very much. >> is that true? >> actually, i don't know