mr. hennessey. i think the last few people are people who i could see potentially coming in by declaration if they must testify. here is how i would like to proceed with this. i welcome the views of my fellow commissioners on first, whether there are folks i have mentioned who we think there is no need to hear testimony from. secondly, if there are people who why it -- who i committed to and i would like -- who i omitted. when the parties address this, i would like to hear from any witness you

mr. merton and -- sheriff hennessey. we would like to get that testimony before the commission. we do not want to lose the opportunity to get chief still's testimony. to talk about how a three-year term of probation will affect the share of's ability to perform his duties and how it might create a conflict for him. chairperson hur: i appreciate your concern. with respect to witnesses appearing by a declaration and we should address that but i want to focus on live witnesses right now. you were saying that the people you think we need to see live r. michael hennessey, the mayor, ms. lopez, mr. merton, and ms. williams. during have that correct? >> i do not think the -- we need to hear from a share tennessee. >> i thought you did. >> i was filling out the list. he probably would not be on the list. we do have our subject matter experts. chairperson hur: what is ms. williams going to offer to us that is relevant to any of the charges? >> we expect ms. madison's credibility to be attacked. ileana lopez told a consistent story. the fact that ms. williams is telling both of these witn

hennessey and the acting sheriff if their testimony would be overlapping and michael hennessey will speak to statements made by mr. mirkarimi? >> i think given the burden of preparing a declaration, i feel is more appropriate to place them on someone who was working so we would use the key heresy -- hennessey. >> if we could keep the silence. it is a long night. the views on vicki hennessey. is there an objection? do we need your testimony? >> did you say it would or would not overlap with michael hennessey's testimony? >> my concern is could we get a declaration from a retired sheriff. >> is your objective to choose one or the other? i am not sure what question is on the table. >> my question is whether we need the acting sheriff vicki hennessy. it sounds like michael hennessey was listed as an expert witness by the sheriff and we can address that later. if he is testifying, do we need what sounds like overlapping testimony from vicki hennessy. whether or not you can get a declaration. >> we did not list the retired sheriff as a witness who will testify to every responsibility. we witnessed him -- listed him as