mr. higgens. >> thank you. in the interest of bipartisanship perhaps we should consider as a round table to discuss this issue. it's passionate. we all care about the same thing. thank you for being here. do you generally recognize, sir, that this is an era of reform in the va, that the va has been a mess, man, for decades. it didn't get that way under one administration or one executive or one va committee. and this committee in a very bipartisan manner has touched my spirit, has embraced the challenge to reform the va. but does the va get it, that this is an era of reform? >> i don't think any organization self-reforms. it's going to be what the leader of this -- >> is there a clear understanding within the culture that you describe if you could change one thing or if you could identify one thing that reflects this era of the va as an era of accountability. but i'm going to talk about is there consequence to accountability. i'm just asking you, sir, generally speaking as a man, as an american is it recognized