host: mr. hodge, do you want to go first? hodge: i think we need to talk about the changes that have happened technologically with all of us who are using paid software and tax assistance to pay our taxes or file our tax returns. 76% of all americans use some sort of software or professionals to help them pay their taxes. so we are doing the job of the irs and when we talk about the shrinkage of the irs budget, and a lot of that came from people who used to typing on tax returns by hand. we are doing that for them by electronically filing. companies now are filing tax returns, which often ran to 20,000 or 25,000 pages. they are filing them electronically as well. we have to understand, some of this is the natural shrinkage that happens with technological change. i would like to come up for just a minute, get back to the president spending initiatives. if you add up the total cost of the american recovery plan, that is enough to buy the three largest companies in america, apple, microsoft, and amazon. so there are opportunities

host: mr. hodge?uest: congress often exempt itself from a lot of rules, maybe not on taxes but other things like regulatory policy. i think the sentiment of the caller is right. congress often doesn't feel the real effect of the policies it implements. we need to be very cautious about that. that's one of the reasons why many of us have pushed for what we call dynamic scoring of the economic effects of tax policy. that was allowed in the previous congress but the current congress has eliminated that policy and i think it's important for economists within the joint committee on taxation in congress to measure the microeconomic effect of these text policies so that we understand the long-term effects these will have on things like gdp, on jobs, on wages, on capital investment. if you don't measure those things and simply implement the policy, you are literally flying blind economically and just making up tax policy and wishing were hoping that won't have the kind of effects that will actually damage the

host: mr. hodge, same question to you. guest: i think the biden administration is making too big that's that i think will fail. the first one is the bet that all of this spending for the economic benefits will somehow outweigh the economic harm caused by the tax increases. economic research shows that will be a bad bet. the second bet is that all the increases in corporate taxes will not undermine the competitiveness of the u.s. economy and u.s. companies. by all accounts, the biden plan will actually make the u.s. an outlier once again with one of the highest corporate tax rates in the industrialized world and a very uncompetitive international tax code which will sit back competitiveness of u.s. companies and put them behind the eight ball and trying to compete overseas against our foreign competitors. host: the american jobs plan with the president has talked about, the idea of the corporate tax structure, would raise the corporate income tax, currently at 21% to 28%. what's wrong with that 28% figure? guest: we need to

mr. hodge you are now recognized for five minutes. >> thank you chairwoman warren and ranking member cassidy. appreciate being with you today. famous economist said there no solution there only trade-offs and that lesson is especially true in tax policy and in the choices that the lawmakers must make in funding investments. the scales of justice may have to trace the tax policy has three trays revenues equity and economic growth. those factors cannot be balanced equally so lawmakers must decide which is most important. evidence tells us there is a clear trade-off between economic growth and this is especially true as so-called success taxes like taxes on capital and business income. understanding these dynamics matter and how you fund government investment. research by the congressional was in office tells us government investments deliver only half of the economic returns of private-sector investments. private-sector investments according to the ceo returned 10% on the dollar where his governm

host: mr. hodge?congress often exempt itself from a lot of rules, maybe not on taxes but other things like regulatory policy. i think the sentiment of the caller is right. congress often doesn't feel the real effect of the policies it implements. we need to be very cautious about that. that's one of the reasons why many of us have pushed for what we call dynamic scoring of the economic effects of tax policy. that was allowed in the previous congress but the current congress has eliminated that policy and i think it's important for economists within the joint committee on taxation in congress to measure the microeconomic effect of these text policies so that we understand the long-term effects these will have on things like gdp, on jobs, on wages, on capital investment. if you don't measure those things and simply implement the policy, you are literally flying blind economically and just making up tax policy and wishing were hoping that won't have the kind of effects that will actually damage the econo