mr. hoogland and established this program for high school teachers.the effort of that center is to revive civic education. >> you recently completed your phd at boston college where you received the erhardt and bradley foundation fellowships. do you know who they are? >> i wish i could give you a better history of both of them. based in michigan and wisconsin respectively, they are involved in a lot of educational efforts, working to enhance free society today. >> and you don't know either one of them? >> i don't know them personally. i don't think i could do justice to who they were. >> you are the recipient of a weaver fellowship from the intercollegiate studies institute area who was weaver? >> he wrote a book that was on, ideas have consequences. a thinker in the middle part of the 20th century tried to figure out what really is the lasting significance of liberty in the west? where did modernity go wrong? >> last chapter of your book is about frederick douglass. why? >> frederick douglass was a remarkable and i think not well enough known america