mr. ingham, who is mrs. thatcher's press secretary, noted this, it's our number 01626, addressed to the prime minister -- "attached is a record of the salient points of your lunch yesterday with rupert murdoch. in line with your wishes, the attached has not gone outside number 10 and is, of course, to be treated commercial -- in confidence." this is a document which didn't enter the public domain until march of this year, mr. murdoch. do you understand that? >> yes. >> according to "the history of the times, the murdoch years," published by harper collins in 2005, page 28, you previously had had no recollection whatsoever of this lunch. is that right? >> that's correct. i still don't, to be honest. but i totally accept mr. ingham's minutes, detailed minutes, which sound to me to be correct. >> well, it was quite a -- >> i think i'd asked mrs. thatcher could i see her and she said, "well, why don't you come to lunch on sunday?" >> yes. according to mr. ingham's note, this is our page 01627, it was quite an in