mr. issa: mr. speaker, by the direction of the committee on rules, i call up house resolution 711. the speaker pro tempore: the clerk will report the title of the resolution. the clerk: house resolution 711, resolution recommending that the house of representatives find eric h. holder jr., attorney general, u.s. department of justice, in contempt of congress for refusal to comply with a subpoena duly issued by the committee on oversight and government reform. . the speaker pro tempore: the resolution is considered as read and shall be debatable for 50 minutes equally divided and controlled by the chair and ranking member of the committee on oversight and government reform, or their designee. after debate on the resolution, it shall be in oinary to consider a motion to refer, if offered, by the gentleman from michigan, mr. dingell, or his designee, which shall be debatable for 10 minutes equally divided by a proponent or opponent. the gentleman from california, mr. issa, and gentleman from maryland,

mr. issa: mr. speaker, this is the refusal of turning over documents, not whether or not it was his lieutenants or he who was involved in fast and furious. with that i'd like to recognize the distinguished former chairman of the judiciary committee, the gentleman from wisconsin, mr. sensenbrenner, for two minutes. thspeaker pro tempore: the gentleman from wisconsin is recognized for two minutes. mr. sensenbrenner: mr. speaker, this isn't about politics. this is about th constitution. and it's about congress' map date to do oversight -- mandate to do oversight over both executive and judicial branches of government. the president is asserting executive privilege to attempt to shield these documents. and he is relying on a type of primpling called the deliberative process privilege. however, that privilege disappears when congress' investigating evidence of wrongdoing. and in 1997 the u.s. court of appeals for the district of columbia circuit wrote in part, moreover, the privilege disappears altogeth

mr. issa: mr. speaker, point of inquiry, do i have the right to close? the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from california has the right to close. mr. issa: i reserve my right to close. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from maryland. mr. cummings: do you have any more speakers? mr. issa: no, i do not. mr. cummings: mr. speaker, as the democratic leader said, there's no doubt that the constitution gives congress the right and responsibility to investigate, but the constitution also requires something else. it requires congress and the executive branch to avoi unnecessary confli and deceit, accommodations that serve both of their interests. in this case the attorney general has testified nine times. he's provided thousands of pages of documents. he's provided 13 pages of deliberative internal document and he's willing to provide even more to meet the recent demands of chairman issa. but house republican leaders are not honoring their constitutional obligations. in fact, they are running in t

. >> mr. issa. >> no. >> mr. issa votes no. mr. burton. >> mr. mica. mr. plats? [ inaudible ]. >> mr. plats votes no. mr. turner? mr. turner votes no. mr. jordan. mr. jordan votes no. mr. chaffetz. mr. chaffetz votes no. mr. mack votes no. mr. wahlberg. mr. wahlberg votes no. mr. langford votes no. mr. move. miss beshgle? miss beshgle votes no. dr. go czar votes no. mr. labrador votes no. mr. meehan votes no. mr. walsh? >> mr. walsh votes no. mr. gowdey votes no. mr. ross. mr. ross votes no. mr. ginta. mr. kelly. >> no mr. kelly votes no. mr. comings. >> yes. >> mr. cummings votes aye. mr. towns. miss la loney votes aye. mr. kucinich. mr. teareny. >> aye. mr. clay. mr. lynch? >> aye. >> mr. lynch votes aye. mr. connelly. >> aye. >> mr. quigley votes aye. mr. davis votes aye. >> mr. welsh. >> aye. >> mr. murphy? miss spear. >> miss spaer votes aye. >> mr. kucinich. >> you're not recorded. >> i vote aye. >> mr. kucinich votes aye. you are not, sir. >> mr. burton votes no. >> mr. mckenry. >> votes no. >> mr. mchenry votes no. >> anyone else seek recognition. >> vote

mr. issa: mr. speaker, this is the refusal of turning over documents, not whether or not it was his lieutenants or he who was involved in fast and rious. with that i'd like to recognize the distinguished former chairman of the judiciary committee, the gentleman from wisconsin, mr. sensenbrenner, for two minutes. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from wisconsin is recognized for two minutes. mr. sensenbrenner: mr. speaker, this isn't about politics. this is about the constitution. and it's about congress' map date to do oversight -- mandate to do oversight over both executive and judicial branches of government. the president is asserting executive privilege to attempt to shield these documents. and he is relying on a type of primpling called the deliberative process privilege. however, that privilege disappears when congress' investigating evidence of wrongdoing. and in 1997 e u.s. court of appeals for the district of columbia circuit wrote in part, moreover, the privilege disappears altogethe

mr. issa's, recognized. >> thank you, mr. chairman. attorney general. december 14th, 2010, brian terry was gunned down and we began knowing more about fast and furious shortly thereafter. but you've said, people representing you have said repeatedly you didn't know about it before that. i've sent you a number of letters. senator grassley sense you a numblot of letters. you said in your opening statement the speaker's letter. the speaker simply asked you for response to two key areas. he did not revoke any subpoenas. however, you implied that we were working together when, in fact, since may 18th, nothing, nothing has come from your department. not one shred of paper. i want to ask you, first of all, today, have you and your attorneys produced internally the materials responsive to the subpoenas? >> we believe that we have bonded to the -- >> no, mr. attorney general, you're not a good witness. a good witness answers the question asked. so let's go back again. have you and your attorneys produced internally the materials responsible? in other words, have

mr. issa çthis, did not kno about this, did not authorize it, did not condone it. this whole situation, so that's why this contempt vote tomorrow is so unfortunate. and keep in mind that there's been only -- no one has, no cabinet member in the history of the united states of america has ever been voted in contempt and so this is really sad and very unfortunate. >> i want to play what congressman issa said about you during today's hearing. here it is. >> i believe mr. cummings has not lived up to his promise. i wish he had, to the terry family. i believe in spirit he thinks he has, but in reality, this truth, the full truth, is too painful for, in fact, him to take on his own attorney general. i think that's one of the problems that goes on in every administration. >> i want to give you an opportunity to respond to that. >> i responded in the hearing and told him, and i'll say it today. in my 61 years in life, i have had nobody to challenge my integrity. mr. issa gets confused, when you stand

mr. issa that the transfer of those records that he had requested would satisfy a subpoena from the house oversight and government reform committee. mr. issa rejected, apparently, that deal and so here we are on capitol hill, moving ahead with this hearing to consider contempt charges. after that meeting yesterday, attorney general holder held a briefing with reporters to discuss what took place. >> good afternoon. the deputy attorney general and i came here today in good faith in an attempt to resolve the ongoing dispute that we have with the committee and with chairman issa. we have made to date available an unprecedented number of documents, really inconsistent with the way in which the justice department has looked at many of these matters in the past. we've provided deliberative materials to the committee. we laid out a plan that might resolve this matter. we have offered to make materials available, documents available in the period from february to december of 2011 to brief on those doc

when mr. issastarting out calling the attorney generjanet liar and and calling the obama administration the most corrupt in history, it defeats the goal. >> representative from vermont, peter welch. many thanks for your time. appreciate it. >> thank you. >>> in this week's office politics, we talk with our own martin bashir about the tenor in the country right now and what he calls contempt of the president by the political o pent ents. i ask if immigration will be a game changer as we head towards november. >> i think it's huge. you have to compare the republican position, which is confused, multifact oral multiresolutional, they have different ideas, a dream act that marco rubio was sponsoring and boehner didn't like. you have others who suggest that any kind of resolution is a. amnes amnesty, there's a huge problem of the reality of demographics. what the president has done by offering what i think everybody would agree is a humane act. the statistics suggest in a recent poll that 63% of the pop

holder has provided ream s documents, mr. issahanged the request, changed what he wants and keeps moving the goal post. >> you say that what you need, you already have, that this is just an ongoing set of political harassments? >> well, it looks that way to me on the basis of the fact holder has testified as i mentioned eight time. he's basically opened up his files and mr. issa has constantly changed what heats requesting. also, the big question, why doesn't the committee want to go back to the bush administration which this operation started? so you're isolating it, focusing your attention on the person who actually unwound the operation, who is not the initiator of it. no evidence whatsoever mr. holder was involved. it raises a question of political motivation. >> the rolling stone headline, talking about this, says the gop is at war with the attorney general. do you think that's true or a little bit of hyperbole? >> a little bit of hyperbole, but a political battle and intended, i think, to discredit mr. holder. it's intended

. >> yes, mr. issayour conspiracy theory has become reality. >> when nixon pushed the emerging discussion and discovery of the plumber's activity atwater gate, pushed it past the election -- >> throw around the term watergate so much at fox you think the guy run fox was a nixon operative. oh, my god! ♪ >> we begin today as a house rules committee continues to argue thursday's scheduled vote to hold attorney general eric holder in contempt. but as that continues, a report this afternoon could throw the very facts of the fast and furious case upside down. and explosive investigation by "fortune" magazine that took six months to research, reports much of what republicans have been telling us about fast and furious may be entirely wrong. two weapons found at that point scene of agent brian terry's tragic death were allegedly bought by a manuel known to agents. trance subsequent and drug user who purchased them with cash. the report states that the man was a fast and furious suspect. but that the guns in que

so why is not mr. issa asking for all of these records? >> and joining me now republican trey gowdy from south carolina. these are live pictures. chairman issa speaking at the rules committee meeting. thank you for your time. >> yes. >> as we see it, the ball is moving forward. there were some holding out hope that perhaps we would not see this go before the full house. i hope your mic is working here. we've got live moots. chairman issa speaking here. we just heard from james clyburn who says that this program started under the previous administration and he is wondering why the records that have been requested are not going further back from this chairman. what's your reaction to that? >> is that question to me? >> yes, sir, it is. >> well, this may shock you. i actually would agree with anyone who wants all the information irrespective of which administration it starred under. i made that point when we marked up the reasonable contempt of congress. i don't care if it's republicans, whigs, wide receivers, gun walking is wrong no matter wh

mr. issa and the republicans on the house oversight committee found that not to be enough and went through with the committee level vote of contempt. >> we heard one democrat is likely to join republicans in favor of contempt. who is he and how many others could defect from the party from this vote in on top of that, would there be any republicans to cross over to democrats to vote against the resolution? >> there may be a few republicans who vote no on the contempt resolution but i think much more likely is that democrats will vote yes on the resolution. i've heard that up to two dozen if not more democrats may join on the contempt resolution and there is pressure on them from the conservative national rifle association which is scoring this vote and has made clear there would be repercussions from that organization if democrats would vote against the contempt resolution. >> if the votes are there to hold attorney general holder in contempt, what's likely to happen next? >> well, that's a lit

mr. issa has threatened to hold the attorney general in contempt of congress accusing him of failing to cooperate with a congressional investigation into the botched gun-running sting that put thousands of guns into the hands of some very bad mexican criminals. this started back in october of 2009 when the atf's phoenix office started using a controversial gun-walking strategy that allowed the guns to be sold to suspected smugglers in mexico so they could be traced, the idea was, to the cartels that wound up buying the guns. on december 14th, 2010, border patrol agent brian terry was fatally shot by suspected smugglers and two assault rifles that the atf let walk were found at the crime scene. we neglected the attempt to follow the guns into mexican criminals was disasterous. and did not work. we have one dead border patrol agent and hundreds dead in mexico. the next month the atf stops "fast and furious" after losing track of 1400 weapons. the same month iowa senator chuck grassley begins the

and the big failings of what mr. issa has done -- two things.e, the subpoena he sent to the attorney general was so over-broad it was requiring him to provide information that if he would have it would have put him in jail. grand jury transcripts. that's illegal to turn over. transcripts of wiretap applications, that's against the united states code to turn it over. so it raises questions about the credibility of what's really the agenda here. is it the pursuit of truth or a political hit shot? that is what the chair has to protect. second thing is that the attorney general has actually been very responsive. he's been in to the congress eight times to testify, produce thousands of documents. so this is something that could be worked out. but sometimes you don't want to take yes for an answer. >> josh, congressman issa told rush limbaugh in 2010 that president obama was one of the most corrupt presidents in modern times. he walked it back, then came out with this zinger just two months ago. >> we're very busy in washington with a corrupt governme

all of the attorney general asked for and i sat in a meet he simply with mr. issa and he simply said look, i am willing to turn over documents, but just give me some you know, assurances that you will make a good faith effort to the end. >> chris: let me -- >> i am almost finished. >> chris: this is a key point and let me explain to folks who have not followed this closely. in february 2011, a little over a year ago, the justice department sent a letter to senator grassley said no gun walking operation where they had let the guns go over the border and in december 2011, they retracted the letter to congress. that is why it is a big day. congressman issa you talk about finding the truth about briantery, you refused to hold a public hearing with the people at phoenix atf that ran the pradings . you refused a public hearing with the former head of atf. ken nelson. you refused a public hearing and he testified he never told the higher ups about fast and furious. >> no. kris. he testified he did tell them. >> chris: you also in the case of the letters seeking documents

. >> sadly for mr. issa the only thing that's fast and furious would appear to be his own sense of paranoia. let's get right to our panel now. "washington post" columnist dana joins us live from washington. here in new york, jonathon altar, columnist for bloomberg view and msnbc political analyst. dana, have you just come from this hearing. it has been testy, vociferous. >> it is a small room. it can overheat quite quickly. they started out were w the pleantries but quickly turned into really a food fight. unfortunately i left as they were taking out the mashed potatoes. it is -- very tense. unlimited debate in that room. it will go on for a while. it has been all laid out. they are going to proceed with this regardless of what the facts are as presented in the report. whether or not they were fair with the investigation. they will have the contempt vote and then nothing will happen. just another day of theater. >> did anybody mention this bombshell report in "fortune" magazine? >> no but they mentioned the

enforcement official attempt to the blackmail a committee chairman or is this more make believe from mr. issa? >> that is so sad. this is above the integrity of mr. holder and the office to give them piecemeal what they're asking for when the argument has always been the constitutionality of surrendering these documents. that is something no one should ever deviate from. we have scholars that can come in right now and take a look at these things with the approval of the executive and the legislative branch and avoid this confrontation. but no, no it, the confrontation is exactly what the republicans want. nothing else. >> there seems to be such a convoluted strategy here because republicans are saying that given the death of a border agent, it requires and demands that they see all these documents. even though they know that some of these documents refer to confidential informants and if that information were ever to fall into the wrong hands, those self-same informants might be endangered themselves. again, it just seems completely contradictory. >> well, there's absolutely nothing in terms

leadership this morning, question posed to john boehner about what he thought about this theory by mr. issago there either not at all. mr. hoda not giving over the proper documents. >> did luke say you are doing republican points. >> leadership e-mail. that's not a bad police to be. give us the information. >> back to luke on the student loan bill. this is a done deal, right? >> yes. for all intents and purposes. it would hand congress, the republicans and democrats a huge win before the july fourth recess. there's always talk of dysfunction but will get the transportation bill through. we will sea a -- will be a job creator, both sides agree on that. republicans will from what i heard will not get the keystone pipeline. however, will get a process by which environmental permitting is sped up and there is a consolidation of a lot of federal highway -- different funds and that money that the federal government gives to the states for their highways, sidewalks, bike paths, it has to go to the roads and democrats get their bill through and stay is a job create sxwror get the president re-elect

this is where my view is i wish mr. issa would have worked with committee democrats because we support an investigation and support congressional access to documents but we want a complete investigation and have it beyond the level not turn into essentially a political agenda or something used by an outside group for its own purposes. >> thank you very much. i greatly appreciate your time. assistant democratic leader james clyburn said today what's going on withholder is overkill and told chuck todd that republicans are not interested in finding out all of the facts. >> there were about four of these so-called gun walking episodes, three of which took place in the bush administration. and the same people who were held over into the obama administration conducted one subsequent to that. so why is not mr. issasking for all of these records? >> and joining me now republican trey gowdy from south carolina. these are live pictures. chairman issa speaking at the rules committee meeting. thank you for your time. >> yes. >> as we se

there's no -- mr. issathat there was no wrong doing on the part of attorneyç general holder. he did not know about this gunwalking, did not authorize it. as a matter of fact, when he found out about it, he brought it to an end. that is why this is so very sad. this was a great day in one sense with the health care bill. on the other sense, it was a very sad day. >> what's though chairman going to do next? are they actually going to bring about a criminal investigation, a criminal indictment against the attorney general? what's the next step on their agenda? >> it's hard to say what they're going to do. i think that they want to run this out straight on through to the election. this is about politics, chris. let's not kid ourselves. it's about politics trying to help mr. romney become president. but i've got a feeling that it's going to backfire. because i think sometimes you can overreach. and i think that the public is going to see that and understand that. i mean, everybody thought that the health care b

and so then last friday, mr. issa those off the table because he knew there was a flawed document and created another document, citation for contempt on friday. and then says to the attorney general, you've got to produce -- the attorney general says, look, i've already produced some of the documents that you're asking for. and i produce others voluntarily. >> senator, forgive me for interrupting you there. senator grassley said, i'm not going to buy a pig in a poke which is a quote my mom always said, i'm not going to make a deal about whether or not we're going to take this hearing off the table until we get the documents. that's what it seems like this over right now. >> that's basically -- that's exactly where we are. and but, keep in mind, again, the attorney general has said, i have shown good faith and i produced a thousand pages of documents that you wanted, that is the -- basically what the mr. issa is trying to show is two things. one, he's looking for information to show that there was some kind of cover-up

this has become more about the next election, and less about -- let me complete my statement -- >> mr. issa with all due respect, it is my time, i'll reclaim my time now and y50e8d to the gentleman. >> mr. chairman, i would ask if the gentleman has actually read the wiretap applications? >> not one statement that the attorney general or anybody in those wiretaps had any information that supported the allegations that you're making. >> i find that absolutely totally false. >> each and every wiretap. each and every wiretap. >>> i have read them too, and i tell you, deputy assistant attorney general jason winestein, other people are signed on those documents. it is crystal clear in that information. and it is unfair and unjust to try to come to a conclusion when you haven't seen all the documents. >> you v. >> we have not. what we're asking for in this committee is to see the documents, if it clears the department of justice, if eric holder didn't know, if the white house didn't know, if the senior people didn't know, then let us have these documents and clear this up. that's why we don't have

mr. issa has rebuffed requests by ranking member cummings to address reforms at the department of justice and the clear need for legislation to fight illegal gun trafficking along the southwest border, including a request for a hearing on the topic, just a hearing, and the chairman has also demanded that the department of justice produce a wiretap applications that were ordered sealed. >> gentle lady's time has expired. i would ask unanimous consent the gentle lady have an additional 30 seconds. without objection, so ordered. >> and i must say, mr. chairman, i am offended offended personally by your calling the attorney general a liar, and it is extremely disrespectful, and attacking to our public servant, and you have called me a liar. you apologized later and i accepted, but where have we did he generated to in calling names and not having hearings on meaningful reforms and merely degenerating to attacking people and moving forward with paperwork that is unwarranted, unfair, and violates the

mr. issa: reserving the right to close, i have no more speakers. the speaker pro tempore: does the gentleman from maryland wish to be recognized? mr. cummings: yes. mr. speaker, the -- you know, it's interesting here today what we just did with regard to the criminal contempt, i do believe that it is very unfortunate and let me tell you why. we have an attorney general who is indeed an honorable man. we who practice law look up to the attorney general and any u.s. attorney. they are folks like us who are well educated and who love their country and eric holder jr. is no exception. over and over again he has tried to cooperate with this committee and i'm sure that both sides -- his side and our side have become a little frustrated at times. but as he said in a meeting a few weeks ago -- about a couple weeks ago, he said that he's willing to give the documents. he's asking at some point his attorneys have an opportunity to get back to work. now, leader pelosi said something a moment ago that we should not lose sight of, mr. speaker, when she spoke abo

that you need and solutions moving forward, and i want to quote from the letter that was sent to mr. issa from james cole. in it he says i stress that the department remains willing to work toward a mutually satisfactory resolution of this matter, so why can't we work together? i would like to publicly thank mr. micca for working across the aisle on the transportation bill and hopefully this can move forward in a bipartisan way, and i think we should work across the aisle on getting this resolved in a way that satisfies the chairman and the members on both sides of the aisle and the fact that he has made an offer to continue discussions we should follow up, and i think that this offer reinforces the points that my good friend the congressman norton was making that the justice department is opened to working towards some type of conclusion. i would like to say we have never censureed a cabinet offer. i think it was people or had a contempt vote and i can't remember. you can probably remember. never a cabinet officer and never the highest ranking member of law enforcement for our country wh

mr. issa's contempt citation the wiretap application document the extensive involvement of the criminal division. >> would the gentle woman stead her parliamentary ininquiry. >> did anyone review zmoosh that's not a parliamentary question. >> whether this leaked information will -- >> miss jackson that is not a parliamenta parliamentary inquiry. >> we'll have to deduct this from your file you continue. that's not a parliamentary inquiry. >> i believe it is. >> gentleman from virginia, mr. forbes is recognized for his questions. >> thank you, mr. chairman. general, thank you for being here today. i think despite all the rhetoric we know that this committee is not asking you to break through regarding what you say or information you provide to congress. it's just as you know it doesn't matter if you appear before congress seven times or 70 times when you're asked you say i don't know to the questions that are most pertinent or doesn't matter if you supply 7,000 pages or documents or 700,000 participation if they are not the proper papers to answer key questions. so i want to begin where you began

mr. issa wants documents that led up to that february 4th letter that again misstated the fact that gun running had taken place, again, gun walking had taken place, and second, he wants documents that may have been available after, may have been written after that february 4th letter. so that's what we're going to be discussing today. i applaud chairman issa for taking the documents that was unreasonable demands off the table and now, i also applaud mr. holder for already delivering to the chairman documents which led up to the february 4th letter that i just talked about. >> congressman, do you think this showdown can be averted? you know darrell issa really well. you work next to him. obviously you know eric holder, you know the situation. are you going to be present at that meeting or is this going to be one-on-one between the two of them? >> oh, no, i will be present. i think this can be averted. i think that if chairman issa really wants to resolve this issue, and get it over with, i thin

mr. issa's motivation? >> i'm not going to speak to his motive, but he's not going to implicate that the president knew about fast and furious. why is he now changing his tune kept that it creates new headlines. >> let's play senator mccain please. >> and any attorney general of the united states is held in contempt, whether it be republicans or democrats, it's obviously a tremendous blow to that individual's credibility. >> so as it stands, this vote will happen on thursday, do you believe in any last-minute, i don't even know what to call it at this point, a compromise, since that seems to be a dirty word these days in the belt way. what do you hope is a realistic thing to come out on thursday. >> i'm hoping that the public is go to rise up and say enough of this nonsense. if the polls reflect that they're not going the traction they want politically, then i think you're going to see an effort made to try and negotiate a solution. attorney general holder has said we are willing to work with you. it was at

a perfect ten, mr. issa.l kidding a sigh, not to distract from a flawed operation, but to highlight a simple truth. republicans turned this into a sport. stay tuned. today's top headlines are coming up. with the spark cash card from capital one, sven's home security gets the most rewards of any small business credit card! how does this thing work? oh, i like it! [ garth ] sven's small business earns 2% cash back on every purchase, every day! woo-hoo!!! so that's ten security gators, right? put them on my spark card! why settle for less? testing hot tar... great businesses deserve the most rewards! [ male announcer ] the spk business card from capital one. choose unlimited rewards with 2% cash back or double miles on every purchase, every day! what's in your wallet? here's your invoice. how math and science kind of makes the world work. in high school, i had a physics teacher by the name of mr. davies. he made physics more than theoretical, he made it real for me. we built a guitar, we did things with electron

that's not mr. issa. icans -- we are going to pull up issa for you but republicans held several hearings on the so-called gun walking prime minister even though it was cooked up by the bush administration and shut down by holder. despite all of that, republicans are still moving towards a contempt vote at 10:00 a.m. tomorrow morning. joining me now is democratic congressman adam schiff of california. he's a former federal prosecutor who has been outspoken in hol r holder's defense. thank you for being here, congressman schiff. >> you bet. pleasure to join you. >> congressman, do you think that republicans will definitely go ahead with this contempt vote? >> i think they will. that's been the game plan all along. i wish i could say otherwise but this looks like a completely political exercise. in the beginning, the -- committee was demanding grand jury materials, wiretap application materials the justice department was precluded from providing. they had to walk back from that. now they are demanding informa