mr. jenkins and mr. karpinski we have heard a lot that only 2000 acres would be disturbed by the drilling. there was an analogy made some years back in this committee when a similar claim was made. this is like saying the area of the table is the area of its legs. is it in fact the case that only 2008 here's what he disturbed? is there no impact for example from the ice roads? mr. jenkins and mr. karpinski do either of you have anything to say on that? >> let me go back to one point because different people can see the same place and say different things. i just wanted to quote from the people. the people who call the arctic refuge quote the sacred place where life begins. that is how they describe it. >> if i may come, if i may. that is my home. >> let the witness finish and as time allows i would be happy to yield to the chair. the witness was in mid-statement. >> clearly the extent to which there is oil there is not in one central place deposited throughout the plane and therefore you have to connect

mr. jenkins, do you seriously think -- first let me reface by some information that mr. added earlier in his written testimony, the central arctic caribou herd was around 3,000, now it's up to 65,000, about a 22-fold increase. the porcupine, caribou herd is now about 169,000 strong. there are other herds apparently, and do you think, do you seriously think, mr. jenkins, we're talking about a wildlife refuge, the natural natural national wildlife refuge, that a 2,000-acre footprint would damage the caribou herds or other wildlife in the refuge? >> first i dispute the 2,000-acre footprint part. i don't know if you were here earlier, but the whole analogy of a table and measuring four legs was used. but, you know, the oil exists in the refuge according to usgs in various pockets that stretch through the entire expanse. if you're going to access that oil, you have to have pipelines to connect that back to wherever you're taking it to. there's no way that you can access all that and actually bring it to market and actually be within a 2,000-acre footprint. it's just physicall

mr. jenkins you are recognized for five minutes. turn on the microphone if you would. thank you. >> good morning. is the time david jenkins vice president of government and political affairs were republicans for environmental protection. a i project the opportunity to testify today. representing a grassroots organization based on the idea edge of idea that conservation is conservative. our members recognize that natural resource stewardship requires a balanced approach. they see oil drilling in prudhoe bay and other parts of alaska's north slope and they come to the same conclusion the eisenhower administration came to 50 years ago. redacting the arctic refuge represents balance. was 95% of the north slope's coastal plain available for development, it is hard to argue that stripping away protections for that last remaining 5% constitutes a balanced approach. the great conservative political theorist russell kirk challenge conservatives to hoard what remains of natural wealth against the fierce appetites of modern life. the purpose of this hearing today is to explore cla

mr. jenkins have you been to anwr? >> several people on our staff and our members have. >> no, have you been there? secondly how can you say it is a sacred area when mr. fenton rexford lived there. that is his area. why is it sacred to you and he wants to drill? this is two and a half hours. >> come to order. >> thank you for joining us for this very important hearing. human rights record in the entire world. the democratic peoples republic of korea is known to be the world's most isolateed country as the citizens are prevented from traveling either internally or internationally without express permission. communications with the outside world are also tightly regulated, and attempts by the dictatorship to filter all information accessible bill the north korean people therefore, the testimony to be provided today by our distinguished panel, and in particular our two defector witnesses, is particularly welcomed and appreciated. mrs. kim young soon and mrs. kim hisuk, who survived the north core afternoon prison camps hal