mr. katsuyama? >> sir, can you repeat the question? >> is there subjective factors in determining which market to go to for the ones for the orders which are -- non -- let me get the ride word here. nonmarketable? >> sure. at times there are for example if there are -- if you're establishing a new price meaning that you will be the only person on the bid, bidding on an exchange that pays a high rebate since you're the only person on the bid, it is justifiable. it makes sense. if you're joining a queue that is very thick that has multiple exchanges represented and you choose to get at the end of the longest line, i would say that would be a conflict. >> would that be a subjective factor -- are there subjective factors in that determination? >> yes. it's based on what is currently on the bid which would primarily be determined by the stock. so there are factors where a broker looking to get a rebate isn't necessarily in conflict with their duty to their client. so it's conditional, based on the -- con

mr. katsuyama should the make or taker system be eliminated? >> i think that steps should be taken to address what happens to the market if this is eliminated. i know a pilot study has been proposed. >> say that again. >> the pilot shouldy that has been proposed, i think it should have -- >> which eliminates it. >> which eliminates make or taker in certain stocks, i think it should be given the chance to prove that eliminating it shouldn't harm the quality of the markets. >> i think that steps should be taken and analyzed -- >> so at least that step ought to be taken. >> definitely. >> professor. >> hiem not a risk taker. my view would be maybe not to eliminate make or taker because you might push it into soft dollar using. my goal would be to push disclosure back onto the broker. so it would be easier to tell. the sect a first step with this in 2000, 2001. we think you can do a better job with that now. >> would you support that test case that mr. katsuyama talked about. >> a pilot better than going all in. >> all right. some of have argued th