about did you know, mr. kerrshooting deaths occurred in chicago than among coalition forces in afghanistan in 2012? did you know that? >> i am aware of that. >> bill: that's a disgrace. that's just a disgrace. >> it is a disgrace. i'm with you. there is a loft things that can attribute to that i mean, you talk about gun laws in chicago. there are gun laws, but the suburbs. >> bill: that's every city though. all the thugs here in new york can go down to virginia and get the gun as and truck them on back. every city has got that problem. chicago has not come to grips with it they won't take the tough measures to control it as mr. mcgill said certain neighborhoods. am i right? if you flood the zone in the south side of chicago where all of these murders, most of them are taking place with cops on the street all over the place, you are going to cut it down. mr. mcgill and i will give you the last word, mr. kerr. >> bill, i think you will cut it down. there is no question about that. i'm for stop and frisk. we need to

kerr. along with mr. rivero, i was one of the whistle blowers who exposed misappropriations in the gift fund that is at the root of this sunshine concern that mr. menat shaw has raised. what really struck us was the inordinate delays in getting our concern attended to, both by the ethics commission and the whistle-blower program. we also had complaints about department of public health contracts, conflicts of interests and those complaints took over two years to get resolved, at which time we had been driven out of the hospital. so having talked to almost a dozen other city whistle blowers, all of them experienced the same retaliation. there is no whistle blowers that could get away in one piece. so we have lingering concerns that the ethics commission is complicit in burying whistle-blower complaints and in enabling retaliation and destruction of whistle-blowers. i think it would help everyone, particularly the whistle-blowers, if you would release something and you can honor confidentiality, but you don

mr. st. croix, can you respond to dr. kur's question about 6a? >> dr. kerr is absolutely correct the bar is now one commissioner member can calendar a complaint. i'm not sure why this copy went out, but it's typographical or an old copy, but it's one that has already been voted on and in effect. >> thank you. any other discussion from the commissioners on this agenda item? is there a motion to approve the changes to the regulations for investigations and enforcement proceedings? >> is moved. >> second. >> all in favor? >> aye. >> any opposed? hearing none the motion passes. the next item on the agenda is discussion and possible action on reports submitted by lisa herrick formerly of the san jose city attorney's office. as you will recall and was referenced previously, on october 22, 2012 we held a hearing on this matter relating to ethics complaints brought by mr. shaw. we also reviewed and considered paper submitted by mr. shaw and heard argument from mr. shaw on the matter. during that hearing, we asked miss herrick to review a number of determination if t

mr. st. croix, can you respond to dr. kur's question about 6a? >> dr. kerr is absolutely correct the bar is now one commissioner member can calendar a complaint. i'm not sure why this copy went out, but it's typographical or an old copy, but it's one that has already been voted on and in effect. >> thank you. any other discussion from the commissioners on this agenda item? is there a motion to approve the changes to the regulations for investigations and enforcement proceedings? >> is moved. >> second. >> all in favor? >> aye. >> any opposed? hearing none the motioa

mr. hur prejudiced the october 22nd hearing. which with all due respect, sir was willful prejudice. >> dr. derrick kerr again. another issue that comes up with these complaints and investigations is whether the ethics commission or the regulatory agency does anything? does any investigation? one way to find out is to request documents. the documents are not confidential. it's the information that is confidential. for example, if you request information about an fbi investigation, they might send you documents that are completely black with nothing except black on it. but you know that there is a document; that something was done. so if we ask for something, a document or some information, you could still give the public a document and hold onto the information. that way we know that something was done on paper, but that we can't have the information. thank you. >> commissioners, ray hart, director of san francisco open government. i think it's kind of circular reasoning or some sort -- i don't know how to describe it -- to say that because it took us two years to get to this point, it obviously wasn't willful