mr. koskinen: that's ongoing. we expect next week to give a public discussion what we'll do for the next filing season. i told them it's not for the next filing season. we need to begin to take a look at on a longer term basis what we need to do. the private sector node northed they need a -- sector noted they need a level playing field. sharing data or implementation or what we're going to require from taxpayers, we're the only ones who can require that across the board so that one person isn't getting an advantage. we'll do that if necessary. if we need legislation we'll be back. but thus far it has been a wonderful working relationship for the past -- senator roberts: i appreciate that. my time is running out. i have one question for mr. george. i understand the i.r.s. has shut down the get transcript program for the time being. this hack has been stopped. in looking at this program moving forward how should we close the door to future attacks? how do you know we've succeeded in shutting the door? mr. george: t

mr. koskinen and if not, why not? >> we haven't shared the results of our findings or our major concerns because we're not quite finished with the report of investigation. when we are finished with that document he will get a copy and he'll be briefed about the management failure and the orvess that we -- the observations that we had and not be notified in a properly manner. >> and so we're not aware of the go along process and there is no official notification to mr. koskinen yes or no. >> in as much as we're talking to his senior managers and his staff and would let him know in our efforts to recover e-mails how we were coming along. so other than just the general occasional status like with the committees we weren't providing him a blow by blow. >> and mr. george, did you have something to add to that. >> he is aware of the general findings but again, no conclusions yet. and that will be forthcoming. >> can i get the word on it today that we will make sure that you inform congress as soon as you encounter difficult

mr. koskinen. commissioner koskinen: if we didn't deal with taxpayers individually, we wouldn't have individual information. the issue globally would still exist as with your credit card, and that is our criminals -- are criminals accessing enough personal information to access your bank accounts, credit cards, mortgage accounts. from the standpoint of the i.r.s. if we were dealing with a system where we collected funds the government collected funds for the value-added tax or fair tax or something that did not require individuals to register with us, almost by definition we wouldn't have a risk of individual identity theft because we wouldn't have individuals identified. senator isakson: my time's up but i'd like to thank mr. koskinen for giving me the tour. i appreciate what you are trying to do. senator hatch: senator scott. aol oot irony of that visit which our employees appreciated the senator and i spent and hour on a briefing on identity theft. senator scott: thank you for being here this mo

mr. koskinen and inspector general george. earlier this chairman first welcome to before the committee i hope to be the beginning of a new chapter of a lot of historic chapter between the irs in the senate finance committee. i said because the issues are too great to be anything but open and honest and productive but today's topic is a great example of why that is so importuned. cyberthreats will only continue to grow. but to figure out what has really happened and how they could prevent another successful attack in the future. with those investigations with a criminal investigation to be sensitive to these investigations for the witnesses and dennis zine of those limitations as fully and candidly as possible. from there i will turn to senator widen for his remarks ; forward to working with you and all other colleagues in a bipartisan concern for this committee. >> three months ago the finance committee met in a hearing with the updated -- with the latest scams plinking taxpayers. and i said then that that wave of attacks sure

mr. koskinen's extensive public and private sector experience has prepared him to confront the many challenges facing the i.r.s. i have a great deal of confidence in commissioner koskinen. i want to thank you, commissioner, for being here with us today. and we're going to -- let me introduce our second witness as well and then have you give your statements. our second witness today is inspector generous ell george of the treasury inspector general for tax administration or tigta. inspector general george has been serving as head of tigta since 2004. he has extensive public service including working for the house of representatives committee on government reform and oversight. i have a great deal of respect for you, also, mr. george, and want to thank you, mr. inspector general for being here today. so if you will, director koskinen, commissioner koskinen, we'll start with you and hope can you keep your remarks within five minutes because i'm sure we'll have a lot of questions. mr. koskinen: members of the committee and chairman hatch, thank for you the opportunity to appear before you today to

mr. koskinen. i want to point out, it is kind of funny, these two operations, field offices, automated collections, reduced their personnel by 25, 28% respectively. i think we have found a way making irs more efficient, right? the numbers would seem to bear that out. neil: incredible. you notice, every time, gerri, a problem calamity comes up or snafu comes up because we don't have enough money. we need more money. amazing. >> one more fact i want to show you here. neil: please. >> remember that the federal tax revenue collections are on track for the biggest year ever, regardless of what the irs has as a budget. federal government will take in $2.1 trillion. so where is the problem here, somebody explain? neil: yeah. not a lack of money coming in. maybe the way it is going out. gerri, thank you very much. gerri willis. >> thank you. neil: want to update you, you remember when it looked like we had a greek deal going? now we're hearing that is not the case. we're hearing from the european commissio

mr. koskinen? >> i think it was before his time. so i guess the acting commissioner. it was before my time too so, you know whatever i tell you is just hearsay. but it was my understanding that the commissioner -- >> we expect a little bit more than that. >> again it was not -- it was not directed towards my desk. >> so it doesn't come through your office your department, your group, whatever you want to call it? >> we might be involved in it but so are the i.t. people. >> was the lois lerner case dealt with differently than anything else? you said it was unprecedented. i want to know why. >> well, i think because there was a lot of other 504 c-3 -- c-4 documents that were requested at the same time. >> so anything that had to deal with those documents the c-4 documents went a different direction than normally? >> it went into sort of a project team where we felt that -- >> so there's a special project team that's set up? >> there was at the time. i don't know if it's still functioning. >> why was there a special team set snup. >> because of the volume -- >> it had no

mr. koskinen who tried to explain that social security numbers were stolen from the i.r.s. which included rents, payments, debts obligations, the entire obligation to 104,000 american citizens. nobody is talking about giving the i.r.s. to the phone companies. nobody is talking about the amount of information the i.r.s. has and whether the government uses it or abuses it. and here we are worried about 41 individuals who have the ability to know two telephone numbers the origination of the call and duration of that call, without its association to a name unless a judge says it's okay. i think there's been a lot of misdirection this week. the american people are starting to listen. i think the senator from from indiana has done a great job of illuminating the truth behind this issue. we have a great country. you don't find anybody trying to break out of the united states of america. they are all trying to break in because we're safe and secure. i commend you for fighting for the safe, the security and the rights of the american people, and i yield back. mr. coats: i thank my c

mr. mooney, to preside over the committee of the whole. commissioner koskinen: the -- the chair: the committee will be in order. the house is in the committee of the whole house on the state of the union for the consideration of h.r. 2578 which the clerk will report by title. the clerk: a bill making appropriations for the departments of commerce and justice, science and related agencies for the fiscal year ending september 30 2016, and for other purposes. the chair: pursuant to the rule the bill is read the first time. the gentleman from texas, mr. culberson, and the gentleman from pennsylvania, mr. fattah, each will control 30 minutes. the chair recognizes the gentleman from texas. mr. culberson: mr. chairman, i yield myself such time as i may consume. today i'm very pleased to present to the house the fiscal year 2016 commerce justice, science, and related agencies appropriations bill with my colleague, mr. chaka fattah of pennsylvania. we have worked very closely -- the chair: the committee will be in order. mr. culberson: thank you, mr. chairman. i'd like

mr. koskinen. we will now turn to mr. george.thank you for the opportunity to discuss the data breach at the irs. may 26 the irs allows criminals had to use taxpayer specific data acquired from not irs source toes gain unauthorsed access to information on approximately 100,000 tax accounts through the irs's get transcript application. our office of investigations continues to investigate this incident coordinating with other federal enforcement agencies. according to reports we received from the irs, which we have not yet validated an individual or individuals succeeded in clear clearing an authentication process that required knowledge of prior information about the taxpayer including social security number dates of birth tax filing status street addresses, as well as answers to personal identity verification questions that typically only the taxpayer would know. security of taxpayer data has been designated as the top concern facing the irs since fiscal year 2011. due to the significant risks in this area we currently have an a