mr. kriesberg is wrong, the pension fund is vastly underfunded, the city doesn't have the money to make it up and if matters are allowed to drift and take their course eventually these workers will not get their full pension sgluz highlight, steven, as usual the key issue here and this is -- this is where the conflict is going to come, and i think it's going to be very terrific, and i don't mean that in a good way conflict. you've got the creditor structure, without getting too wonky, you've got the creditor structure that puts the bondholders above the pensions and the bondholders may be german banks. how do you, if you're a judge, even though you've got law to follow, go to a family in detroit and say sorry, you'll get half what you're owed but a german bank will get all or most of what they are owed? >> the law is the law, unfortunately, and it gets even more complicated than that because some of the bonds are insured so the actual bond holder may get all their money no matter what happens. >> 75 cents to the dollar on the bond and insurance kicks in the 25. they are made whole while a