mr. kronenburg to help him maintain home ownership and we will continue to try and help him find an optionhat will allow him to stay in his home. the bank goes on to say that if people work with them early, they have a better chance of keeping their home. chip parker is the foreclosure defense litigator you just saw on that piece. we invited him to come on the program and talk more about that. this is multiplied by hundreds if not thousands across the state and across the country, really. what i hear over and over again is frustration from homeowners who don't really know how in the world to navigate this foreclosure process. and you talked to tony. he has an mba. he understands these documents. he cannot figure out how to make it work. is that isolated or symptomatic, systematic? >> it's definitely systematic. i saw it a few hours ago with a gentleman who had a va loan. the va guarantees those loans. citi mortgage is the lender who has absolutely refused to work with this gentleman, even though va guidelines mandated that before va will pay for a defaulted loan -- >> work it out early as