mr. kupchan: absolutely. mr. lambert: maybe what the opponents need to do is to somehow break that narrative of this agreement or war. it is very clear that this presidents big positive is to keep us out of a war in the middle east. if opposing this agreement will lead to war in the middle east that is not a strong argument. they have to somehow make this argument that there is a third way, another way, and it is somehow better. so far, i have not seen them make that argument very effectively. ms. slavin: let's go back to the question about what will happen in internal iranian dynamics. a friend of mine, a colleague, is still in joe, the longest of any iranian american journalist. six months now? there are two other iranian americans that have been held for a long time. other iranian political prisoners, some have been let go but there are still others in joe. john, what do think will happen on the humans rights front? i have are different interpretations -- heard different interpretations. mr. lambert: the best

mr. kupchan: i feel like darth vader here. there was a document published in every iranian press outlet. it stated that all sanctions relief would be immediate. it was unequivocal. it stated that iran was free to pursue industrial-scale enrichment to fuel its own reactors. unequivocal. it stated that iran was unhindered in its ability to conduct centrifuge r&d. i don't get ahead of ourselves. there was no agreement on how sanctions would be phased in. there's a big gap. they want it upfront, we don't. we want the infrastructure to stay, they don't. i think it is important to be objective about what we have and what we don't have in the obstacles still facing us. i don't think we are out of the woods. i think there are very difficult issues that were not resolved and we will have to resolve them. it will be tough. i think there is an expectations management game that we have to contribute to, to be realistic about where we are. we are not home. we have a long way to go. ms. slavin: you had a question? wait for the microphone. >

mr. kupchan: so far so good. any deal will be an ugly deal. it is not a pretty deal. there are some technical problems with it, there's a lot we don't know, but it meets the basic structure of a deal that curbs iran's access to nuclear weapons and provides state sanctions relief. obstacles? there are a lot of obstacles to the deal. the first, to me, is there are a lot of substantive gaps between the two sides. if you read the dueling press releases from yesterday, there is no agreement on how sanctions relief will work. the iranians think it will happen up front, the u.s. things it will be in phases. that jumps out at you. the iranians don't mention in their press release that they will give up all but 300 kilograms of enriched uranium. the u.s. makes a big deal of that. there are other discrepancies. the second obstacle is iranian domestic politics. in 2009, the deal fell apart because khamenei could not sell it at home. is the leader going to get cold feet? the pressure is going up. the hard line is already coming after him. this is not a saddam hussein situation. h