mr. lazarof, who has been at this table a number of times as well. tell me how you measure what the russians want to do. are they simply trying to save their client! or are they simply trying to flex their own importance and a player? or do they have interests they want to protect? >> i would say that interests in terms of having the harbor of-- that's not really matters. as i see it. when i disss it very bluntly with mr. lazarof, who i know very well, the answer is always, "we want to avoid chaos." and i said but chaos is not tomorrow. it's today. if you want to avoid chaos you must help to us change the situation. what is the situation? you'd have, on the one hand mbashar al-assad. i would say that his future as the leader of his country seems difficult. >> rose: especially when you have 100,000 syrians dead-- >> and the chemical weapons and permanent disaster and slaughter. on the other hand, at the extreme, you have the terrorists, al qaeda and so on. and they are fighting each other, of, but strengthening each other because mr. bashar al-assad s