mr. lutsenko played in publicizing the manafort black ledgers? >> yes. >> he publicized some information in a grand way of august of 2016, almost immediately coincide with mr. manafort leaving the trump campaign. was there anything about that issue when it was occurring that concerned you? >> i certainly noticed it because i was you know a week or so away from arriving in ukraine. i think that from a ukrainian perspective, i realized that we are looking at this from an american perspective. from a ukrainian spiperspective think that was what mr. lutsenko and others looking into black ledger were most concerned about were not mr. manafort but former president yanakovich and the amount of money that they stole and where it went and so forth. there is a different in perspective depending in which country you are in. >> you can understand the president at least from his perspective looking at these facts certainly is reasonable to conclude there are elements of the ukrainian establishments are against him at this point in time, correct? >> you know ju

mr. lutsenko later retracted. mr. lutsenko said that as a result of these allegations, ambassador yovanovitch would face serious problems in the united states. public opinion polls indicated that ukrainians generally did allegations, and on march following mr. lutsenko's allegations, mr. giuliani and others made a number oblic statements critical of ambassador yovanovitch questioning her intey office. mr. giuliani was also making frequent public statements pushing for ukraine to investigate interference in the 2016 election and issues related to burisma and the bidens. for example, on may 1, 2019 "the new york times" reported that mr. giuliani had, quote, discussed the burisma investigation and its intersection with the bidens with the ousted ukrainian prosecutor general and the current prosecutor. on may 9, "the new york times" reported that mr. giuliani said he planned to travel to ukraine to pursue investigations into the 2016 election interference and into the involvement of former vice president biden's son in a u

mr. lutsenko later retracted. mr. lutsenko said as a result of these allegations, ambassador yovanovitch would face serious problems in the united states. public opinion polls indicated that ukrainians generally did not believe mr. lutsenko's allegations. on march 22nd, president poroshenko issued a statement in support of ambas ons, mr.iuliani and others made a number of statements critical of ambassador yovanovitch, calling for her removal from office and questioning her integrity. he was making frequent public statements pushing for ukraine to investigate interference in the 2016 election and issues related to burisma and the bidens. for example, may 1st, 2019, the "new york times" reported mr. giuliani had, quote, discussed the burisma investigation and its intersection with the bidens with the ousted ukrainian prosecutor general and the current prosecutor. on may 9th, "new york times" reported that mr. giuliani said he planned to travel to ukraine to pursue investigations into the 2016 election interference and in

mr. lutsenko. >> i believe you testified earlier that mr. lutsenko had a reputation for being corrupt, is that right? >> that's correct. o about your future as the ambassador to ukraine? >> well, he told me i needed to leave. >> what did he say? >> he said that -- there was a lot of back and forth, but ultimately he said th that, you know, every foreign service officer understands, the president has lost confidence in you. that was a terrible thing to hear. and i said, well, you know, i guess i have to go then. but no -- no real reason was offered as to why i had to leave and why it was being done in such a manner. >> did you have any indication that the state department had lost confidence in you? >> no. >> and were you provided any reason why the president lost confidence in you? >> no. >> now, you testified at your deposition that you were told at some point that secretary pompeo had tried to protect you, but that he was no longer able to do that. were you aware of these efforts to protect you? >> no, i was not, until -- until that meeting

mr. lutsenko. goldman: and i believe you testified earlier that mr. lutsenko had a -- a reputation for being corrupt, is that right? yovanovitch: that's correct. goldman: now, during this conversation did the deputy secretary tell you about your future as the ambassador to ukraine? yovanovitch: well, he told me i needed to leave. goldman: what did he say? yovanovitch: he said that -- i mean, there was a lot of back and forth. but ultimately, he said the words that, you know, every foreign service officer understands, the president has lost confidence in you. that was, you know, a terrible thing to hear. and -- and i said, well, you know, i guess i have to go then. no real reason was offered as to why i had to leave and why it was being done in such a manner. goldman: did you have any indication that the state department had lost confidence in you? yovanovitch: no. goldman: and were you provided any reason why the president lost confidence in you? yovanovitch: no. goldman: now, you testified at your deposition that you were told at some point that secre

mr. lutsenko and this also would have given mr. lutsenko kind of a direct business tie to the president's lawyer. we already knew they worked together, but a financial tie is a little more significant. >> would have made a couple hundred thousands dollars in exchange for reporting information aid on the bidens and information part of this conspiracy it was ukraine and not russia who interfered in our elections. thank you for setting up the story. we'll analyze in a moment. before this the president was asked what rudy giuliani was doing in ukraine on trump's behalf. >> well, you have to ask that to rudy, but rudy, i don't even know -- i know he was going to go to ukraine and i think he canceled the trip, but rudy has other clients other than me. that he directed, but he is -- he is a warrior. rudy's warrior. rudy went, he possibly -- you have to understand. rudy has other people. >> cnn white house correspondent kaitlan collins with me from florida where the president is on his holiday and so kaitlan, that answer, you have to? rudy.

mr. lutsenko later reattracted. mr. lutsenko said that as a result of these allegations, ambassador yovanovitch would face serious problems in the united states. public opinion polls indicated that ukrainians did not believe mr. lutsenko allegations and on march 22nd, the president issued a statement in support of ambassador yovanovitch. following mr. lutsenko' allegations. mr. giuliani and others made a number of political statements critical of ambassador yovanovitch, questioning her integrity. mr. giuliani was also making frequent public statements pushing for ukraine to investigate interference in the 2016 election and issues related to burisma and the bidens. for example, on may 1st, 2019, the "new york times" reported that mr. giuliani had discussed the burisma investigation and its intersection with the bidens with the ousted ukrainian prosecutor general and the current prosecutor. it was reported that mr. giuliani said he planned to travel to ukraine to pursue investigations into the 2016 election interference an

mr. lutsenko later reattracted. mr. lutsenko said that as a result of these allegations, ambassador yovanovitch would face serious problems in the united states. public opinion polls indicated that ukrainians did not believe mr. lutsenko allegations and on march 22nd, the president issued a statement in support of ambassador yovanovitch. following mr. lutsenko' allegations. mr. giuliani and others made a number of political statements critical of ambassador yovanovitch, questioning her integrity. mr. giuliani was also making frequent public statements pushing for ukraine to investigate interference in the 2016 election and issues related to burisma and the bidens. for example, on may 1st, 2019, the "new york times" reported that mr. giuliani had discussed the burisma investigation and its intersection with the bidens with the ousted ukrainian prosecutor general and the current prosecutor. it was reported that mr. giuliani said he planned to travel to ukraine to pursue investigations into the 2016 election interference an

mr. lutsenko, the prosecutor general, and mr. shokin, his predecessor certainly. >> and at this time mr. lutsenko was the lead prosecutor general, is that right? >> that's correct. >> had president zelensky indicated whether or not he was going to keep him on after the election? >> he had indicated he would not be keeping on mr. lutsenko. >> i believe you testified earlier that mr. lutsenko had a reputation for being corrupt, is that right? >> that's correct. >> now during this conversation did the deputy secretary tell you about your future as the ambassador to ukraine? >> well, he told me i needed to leave. >> what did he say? >> he said that -- there was a lot of back and forth but ultimately he said the words that every foreign service officer understands, the president has lost confidence in you. that was, you know, a terrible thing to hear. and i said well, i guess i have to go then. but no real reason was offered as to why i had to leave and why it was being done in such a manner. >> do you have any indication that the sta

mr. lutsenko's replacement open with his counterpart between mr. yermak and mr. giuliani. ambassador bolton also expressed frustration about ambassador sondla sondland's expansive interpretation of his mandate. after the canceled visit to warsaw, we continued to try to appeal to the president, in foreign policy and national security terms. to that end, ambassador taylor told me that ambassador bolton recommended that he and ambassador taylor send a first person cable to pompeo about the importance of security assistance, and at ambassador taylor's direction, i transmitted the cable on ambassador taylor's behalf on august 29th which further attempted to explain the importance of ukraine and assistance to u.s. national security. by this point, however, my clear impression was that the security assistance hold was likely intended by the president either by expression of dissatisfaction with the ukrainians who had not yet agreed to the investigation, or as an increased pressure to do so. on september 5th, i took notes at senator beyoncena meeting in.

mr. lutsenko, the prosecutor general and mr.utsenko was the lead prosecutor general, is that right? >> yes, that's correct. >> and has president zelensky indicated whether or not he would keep him on after the election? >> he indicated he would not be keeping on mr. lutsenko. >> and i believe you testified earlier that mr. lutsenko had a reputation for being corrupt, is that right? >> that's right. >> during this conversation, did the deputy secretary tell you about your future as the ambassador to ukraine? >> well, he told me i needed to leave. >> what did he say? >> he said that -- i mean, there was a lot of back and forth but ultimately he said the words that you know every foreign service officer understands, the president has lost confidence in you. that was, you know, a terrible thing to hear and -- and i said, well, you know, i guess i have to go then, but no -- no real reason was offered as to why i had to leave and why it was being done in such a manner. >> did you have any indication that the state department had lost

mr. lutsenko, the prosecutor general and mr. shokin, his predecessor certainly. >> and at this time, mr. lutsenko was the lead prosecutor general, is that right? >> yes, that's correct. >> had president zelensky alluded to whether or not he would keep him on after? >> he indicated he would not be keeping on mr. lutsenko. >> i believe you testified earlier he had a reputation for being corrupt, is that right? >> that's correct. >> during this conversation did the deputy secretary tell you about your futureamssor to ukra? >> well, he told me i needed to leave. >> what did he say? >> he said that -- i mean, there was a lot of back and forth, but ultimately he said, the words that, you know, every foreign service officer understands, the president has lost confidence in you. that was, you know, a terrible thing to hear, and i said, well, you know, i guess i have to go then. but no real reason was offered as to why i had to leave, and why it was being done in such a manner. >> did you have any indication that the state department had

mr. lutsenko's allegations. and march 22 president poroshenko issued a statement in support of ambassador yovanovitch. following mr. lutsenko's allegations mr. giuliani and others made a number of public statements critical of ambassador yovanovitch questioning her integrity and calling for her removal from office. mr. giuliani was also making frequent public statements pushing for ukraine to investigate interference in the 2016 election and issues related to burisma and the bidens. for example, on may 1, 2019 "the new york times" reported that mr. giuliani had quote discussed the burisma investigation and its intersection with the bidens with the ousted ukrainian prosecutor general and current prosecutor. may 9th "the new york times" reported mr. giuliani said he planned to travel to ukraine to pursue investigations into the 2016 election interference and into the involvement of former vice president biden's son in a ukrainian gas company. over the next few months mr. giuliani also issued a series of tweets ask

mr. lutsenko? >> yes. did mr. lutsenko have much credibility within the zelensky regime? the current regime? >> i don't think so. >> he did not. and to do you know of any other ukrainians that mr. giuliani was meeting with that was part of the zelensky regime? >> just to her mind, i would have already left ukraine by that point. i'm not aware. >> even with the administration to come. zelensky won the election, there was a two-month period of preparing to be installed in the president, even during that time, were you aware of any -- >> there is one of the oligarchs as we have heard about. one of the oligarchs is named, who met with mr. sherman and parnas to get a meeting with rudy giuliani. >> but those are not people in the zelensky regime? >> no. >> mr. chairman, i yield back. >> mr. castro. >> thank you chairman, think you ambassador for your 32 years of service to our nation. a big question here today is why you were pushed aside as ambassador, for example, americans know that an employer has a right to fire an employee, but they should not do it for certain reasons. y

mr. lutsenko's allegations, mr.made a series statements calling for yovanovitch's removal from office. mr. giuliani was making frequent public statements pushing for ukraine to investigate interference in the 2016 election and issues related to burisma and the bidens. for example, on may 1st, 2019, "the new york times" reported that mr. giuliani had, quote, discussed the burisma investigation and its intersection with the bidens with the ousted ukrainian prosecutor general and the current prosecutor. on may 9th, "the new york times" reported that mr. giuliani said he planned to travel to ukraine to pursue investigations into the 2016 election interference and into the involvement of former vice president biden's son in a ukrainian gas company. over the next few months, mr. giuliani also issued a series of tweets asking, quote, why biden shouldn't be investigated, attacking, quote, the new president of ukraine zelensky for being silent on the 2016 election and biden investigations. and complaining about "the new york

mr. lutsenko. >> we reviewed drafts and in fact retainer agreements that mr. giuliani signed with various ukrainian officials, one a draft agreement unsigned with yuriy lutsen lutsenko, top prosecutors in ukraine at the time and helping with the dirt-digging campaign with joe biden and giuliani proposed in this draft agreement a $200,000 contract to do asset recovery for the government of ukraine to try to get money allegedly stolen and had gone overseas. we also reviewed another contract that he did sign for $300,000 with the ukrainian ministry of justice. none executed, but were various incarnations of these contracts that giuliani was trying to do business with various ukrainian officials while also serving as the president's personal attorney and doing this dirt-digging of the campaign. >> biden jumped in the race officially in april. according to you and your reporting, did these talks -- when did it originate? way back, wintertime? >> the first agreement that we saw proposed was in february of this year, and he had met with -- biden was known to be a lead

mr. lutsenko, to do what they said they were going to do. and mr. lutsenko entered office, that he was going to clean up tt he was going to bring justice to what they call the heavenly hundred, the people who died in the revolution of dignity in 2016. he was going to prosecute cases to repatriate the approximately $48 billion, it's believed, the former president and his cronies fled the country with. he didn't do any of that. we kept on trying to encourage him to do the right thing. that's with you cleaning people wanted them to do. we thought it was a good plan and that he should do it. >> and he mentioned he contacted the state department in late march. doewas that undersecretary hale >> contacted about what? >> about the concerns you have about the campaign against you. >> i contacted the state department much earlier than that. it was an ongoing sort of discussion that makes it sound very formal. we have many ways of going back and forth with washington. on phone calls, we would have this discussion. >> what did you realize -- >> if i could just

mr. lutsenko later retracted. mr. lutsenko said that as a result of these allegations, ambassador yovanovitch would face serious problems in the united states. public opinion polls indicated that ukrainians did not believe mr. lutsenko allegations and on march 22nd, the president issued a statement in support of ambassador yovanovitch. following mr. lutsenko' allegations, mr. giuliani and others made a number of political statements critical of ambassador yovanovitch, questioning her integrity and removing her from office. mr. giuliani was also making frequent public statements pushing for ukraine to investigate interference in the 2016 election and issues related to burisma and the bidens. for example, on may 1st, 2019, the "new york times" reported that mr. giuliani had discussed the burisma investigation and its intersection with the bidens with the ousted ukrainian prosecutor general and the current prosecutor. reported thatas mr. giuliani said he planned to travel to ukraine to pursue investigations into the 2016

mr. lutsenko not credible and told mr. giuliani so? >> thank you, mr. chairman. first off the allegations themselves including those against ambassador yovanovitch did not appear to me to be credible at all. i know her to be an incredibly competent professional. someone i've worked with for many years. the suggestion that she was acting in some inappropriate manner were not credible to me. i've known vice president biden for a long time. those accusations were not credible. and then separate from that, i also was aware of the political situation in ukraine. we had a situation where president porro senko appeared to not be in a favorable position going into the elections where it was increasingly apparent then-candidate zelensky was going to win. as is often the case in ukraine, a change in power would mean change in prosecutorial powers as well and there have been efforts in the past at prosecuting the previous government. i think mr. lutsenko in my estimation and i said this to mayor giuliani when i met with him, was interested in preserving his own position. he

mr. lutsenko had laid out. most important for the ukrainian people but also the international community. the first thing was reforming the prosecutor's general office. it is tremendously powerful office where they had authorities not only to conduct investigations on fbi-like function but also to do the actual prosecution. so very, very wide powers which was part of that soviet legacy. and, there just was not a lot of progress in that and there was not a lot of progress in handling personnel issues and how the structure should be organized and who should have the important jobs because some of the people in those jobs were known, were considered to be corrupt themselves. secondly, the issue that was tremendously important to the ukrainian people bringing justin over the 100 people died. nobody had been held accountable for r ththat. >> that's an open wound for the ukrainian people. ukraine needs all the money that it had. there is a strong belief that former president yanakovich and those around him made $40 bi

mr. lutsenko among others who coordinated with mr. giuliani to peddle false accusations against you as well as the bidens? >> yes, that is my understanding. >> and were these smears also amplified by the president's son, donald trump jr. as well as certain hosts on fox? >> yes. yes, that is the case. >> in the face of this smear campaign, did colleagues at the state department try to get a statement of support for you from secretary pompeo? >> yes. >> were they successful? >> no. >> did you come to learn that they couldn't issue such a statement because they feared it would be undercut by the president? >> yes. >> and then were you told that though you had done nothing wrong, you did not enjoy the confidence of the president and could no longer serve as ambassador? >> yes, that's correct. >>, in fact, you flew home from kyiv on the same day of the inauguration as ukraine's new president? >> that's true. >> that inauguration was attended by three who become the three amigos, sondland, volker and perry? >> yes. >> three days after that

mr. lutsenko among others who coordinated with mr. guiliani to peddle false accusations against you as well as the bidens? >> yes. that is my understanding. >> and were these smears also amplified by the president's son donald trump jr. as well as certain hosts on fox? >> yes, yes. that is the case. >> in the face of this smear campaign did colleagues at the state department try to get a statement of support for you from secretary pompeo? >> yes. >> were they successful? >> no. >> did you come to learn that they couldn't issue such a statement because they feared it would be undercut by the president? >> yes. >> and then were you told that though you had done nothing wrong you did not enjoy the confidence of the president and could no longer serve as ambassador? >> yes, that is correct. >> and, in fact, you flew home from kiev on the same day as the inauguration of ukraine's new president? >> that's true. >> that inauguration was attended by three who have become known as the three amigos ambassador sondland, volker, and perry was it?

mr. lutsenko? rep. hurd: yes. did mr. lutsenko have much credibility within the zelensky regime, the current regime? ms. yovanovitch: i don't think so. rep. hurd: do you know of any other ukrainians that mr. giuliani was meeting with that was part of the zelensky regime? well, just toh: remind, i would have already left ukraine by then. rep. hurd: even with the administration to come, right, zelensky won the election, there was a two-month period of preparing to be installed as president, even during that time, were you aware of any -- ms. yovanovitch: i was -- so thee is an -- one of oligarchs, as we have heard umant, he met with mr. fr and mr. parnas. rep. hurd: they were not in the zelensky regime, right? ms. yovanovitch: no. rep. hurd: thank you, mr. chairman, and i yield back. >> thank you for being here today. the big question is why you were pushed aside. for example, americans know that employers have the right to fire employees, but they should not do it for certain reasons. you should not be fired because you are

mr. yuriy lutsenko. i >> remember the possibility of prosecution. >> they raised it and you talked about it. >> excuse me congressman i'm sorry. to be clear, there was a lot of talk in kiev at that time about whether the new team would be prosecuting the former president. i had met with the president before any opposition as well. i wanted to call mr. earmarks attention to the problems and i'm very familiar with other examples that have gone for prosecutions of the former government. these have created deep divisions in the society. so i cited president zelensky's inauguration speech -- i'm sorry, his national speech from august 24th and it was all about unifying the country. i cautioned mr. yermak saying that pursuing prosecution of president pushing go risks deepening the opposite of president zelensky as he wants to do. it's >> fair to describe that you discouraged him from such action? >> i discouraged him on the potential impact and what was mr. yermak's response. >> i am professionals in saying tha

mr. lutsenko. >> i believe you testified earlier that mr. lutsenko had a reputation for being corrupt, is that right? >> that's correct. >> now, during this conversation did the deputy secretary tell you about your future as the ambassador to ukraine? >> he told me i needed to leave. >> what did he say? >> he said that -- i mean, there was a lot of back and forth but ultimately he said the words that, you know, every foreign service officer understands, the president has lost confidence in you. that was, you know, a terrible thing to hear. and i said, well, you know, i guess i have to go then. but no real reason was offered as to why i had to leave and why it was being done in such a manner. >> did you have any indication that the state department had lost confidence in you? >> no. >> and were you provided any reason why the president lost confidence in you? >> no. >> now, you testified at your deposition that you were told at some point that secretary pompeo had tried to protect you but that he was no longer able to do that. were you aware o

mr. lutsenko's allegations.resident poroshenko issued a state of support in favor of ambassador yovanovitch. mr. giuliani and others made public statements critical of ambassador yovanovitch, questioning her integrity and calling for her removal from office. mr. giuliani was making frequent public statements pushing for ukraine to investigate the 2016 election and issues related to and the theand -- bidens. the new york times reported mr. giuliani "discussed the burisma investigation and its intersection with the bidens." on may 9, the new york times reported mr. giuliani said he planned to travel to ukraine to pursue investigations into the 2016 election interference and involvement of former vice president biden's son. over the next few months, mr. giuliani issued a series of why biden should not be investigated, criticizing president zelensky for being silent, and complaining about the new york times attacking him for "exposing the biden family of making millions from ukrainian criminals." around this time, t

mr. lutsenko not credible and told mr. giuliani so? >> thank you, mr. chairman, the allegations themselves including those against ambassador yovanovitch did not appear to me to be credible at all. i know her to be an incredibly competent professional. someone i worked with for many, many years t the suggestions that she was acting in some inappropriate manner were not credible to me. i have known vice president biden for a long time. those accusations were not credible. and then separate from that, i also was aware of the political situation in ukraine. we had a situation where the president appeared to not be in a favorable position going into the elections where it was increasingly apparent then candidate zelenskyy was going to win. as is often the case in ukraine, a change in power would mean change in prosecutoral pow irz and there rests in the past at prosecuting the previous government. i think mr. lutsenko and i said this to mayor giuliani was interested in preserving his own position. he wanted to avoid being fired by a new government in order

mr. lutsenko and his predecess predecessor? what does the president have to say about one of these corrupt former prosecutors? he praises them! he says they were treated very unfairly! that is not anticorruption, that is corruption. and when ambassador sondland testified today that there was unquestionably a quid pro quo and everybody knew it, conditioning a white house meeting that ukraine desperately wanted to show, his friend and foe that had support of the new president of the united states when that was conditioned, that official act was conditioned on the receipt of things of value to the president, political investigations. that was not anticorruption, that was corruption. and when ambassador sondland testified today that he could put two and two together, and so can we that there was also a quid pro quo in the military aid, that aid was not going to be released unless they did a public statement. ukraine did a public statement of the political investigations, the president wanted, that is not anticorruption, that is cor

mr. lutsenko among others who coordinated with mr. giuliani to peddle false accusations against you as well as the bidens? >> yes, that is my understanding. >> the post and other outlets revealed today that around the same time that giuliani and lutsenko were smearing yovanovich in order to clear the way in part at least for trump's extortion scheme, legal agreements are drafted under which giuliani's company would have received more than $200,000 to represent lutsenko. in addition, another retainer agreement called for giuliani partners to receive another $300,000 in the ukrainian ministry of justice. those deals reportedly did not go through though federal prosecutors are reportedly now scrutinizing giuliani's ukrainian business dealings and finances as part of their broader probe into giuliani's alleged corruption. today giuliani claimed that he did not pursue a business opportunity in ukraine, and on sunday after "the wall street journal" reported he had been set to personally profit from a natural gas pipeline in ukraine, another

mr. lutsenko. is that right? >> i believe that is the case, but i don't know. >> immediately after the president brings up this corrupt former prosecutor , the only one my sophistry to me, the only american abbasid brought up in the call when he brings up that he was being treated very unfairly, he then encourages zelensky to speak with giuliani, the guy who orchestrated the smear campaign against you, correct? >> yes. >> he then brings you up. so he praises the corrupt prosecutor, he says, "i want you to talk to giuliani." the guy who smeared you. and then he brings up. he obviously thought you were relevant to this. what is even more telling is, immediately after he brings you up and says you, "the woman was bad news," he says there is a lot to talk about about biden's son. that biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that. so whatever you can do with the attorney general would be great. immediately after praising this corrupt prosecutor, he attacks you and then goes right to bi

mr. lutsenko and you said whateverly brought up is not credible, is that correct? >> yes. >> i'm going to quote you here. i've known him for a long time. he's a person of integrity to giuliani. simply not credible to me. joe biden would be influenced in his duties as vice president by money or things for a son or anything like that. we've had many discussions over the last few days about these investigations into burisma and biden and the 2016 crowd strike server and you in that conversation with mr. giuliani basically debunked all of that. now tattoo on at that breakfast, who else was with you at that breakfast? >> there was someone that mr. giuliani brought along. i later learned that this was lev parnas who we've learned a lot about since then. >> so mr. lev parnas was at that breakfast that mr. giuliani had with you, and we now know that mr. parnas has since been indicted for campaign, foreign campaign contributions to president trump's political action committee, is that correct? >> i've seen that. >> all right. on may 23rd you were in that discussion with the

mr. lutsenko, among others, who coordinated with mr.iuliani to peddle false accusations against you, as well as the bidens? >> yes, that is my understanding. >> reporter: the state department said she did nothing wrong, but the president still called her "bad news" according to the summary of a july call with ukraine's leader. >> a person who saw me actually reading the transcript said that the color drained from my face. i think i even had a physical reaction. >> what did you think when president trump told president zelensky, and you read that you were going "to go through some things?" >> it kind of felt like a vague threat, and so i wondered what that meant. it concerned me. >> reporter: republicans argued her testimony was irrelevant, because yovanovitch was recalled before mr. trump suddenly withheld military aid to ukraine, the act at the heart of this inquiry. >> i'm not exactly sure what the ambassador is doing here today. >> reporter: but democrats say her removal allowed someone else to step in. >> hi, i'm gordon sondland. >>

mr. lutsenko to do what they said they were going to do, and mr. lutsenko entered office, that is going to clean up the pgo and make reforms, that he was going to bring justice to what they call -- the people who died on the maidan in 2016 -- 2014, the revolution of dignity. and he was going to prosecute cases to repatriate the approximately $40 billion it's believed the former president yovanovitch and his cronies fled the country with. and he didn't do any of that. and we kept on trying to encourage him to do the right thing. that's what ukraine if people want him to do, and we thought it was a good plan and that he should get. >> you to make you contacted the state department in late march. is that undersecretary hailed? >> so contacted about what? >> about the concerns you had about the campaigns against you. >> i contacted the state department much earlier than that. it was an ongoing sort of discussion makes a sound very formal and we have many ways of going back and forth with washington, and so, you know, on phone calls, we would have the di

mr. yuriy lutsenko. i >> remember the possibility of prosecution. >> they raised it and you talked about it. >> excuse me congressman i'm sorry. to be clear, there was a lot of talk in kiev at that time about whether the new team would be prosecuting the former president. i had met with the president before any opposition as well. i wanted to call mr. earmarks attention to the problems and i'm very familiar with other examples that have gone for prosecutions of the former government. these have created deep divisions in the society. so i cited president zelensky's inauguration speech -- i'm sorry, his national speech from august 24th and it was all about unifying the country. i cautioned mr. yermak saying that pursuing prosecution of president pushing go risks deepening the opposite of president zelensky as he wants to do. it's >> fair to describe that you discouraged him from such action? >> i discouraged him on the potential impact and what was mr. yermak's response. >> i am professionals in saying tha

mr. yuriy lutsenko. i >> remember the possibility of prosecution. >> they raised it and you talked about it. >> excuse me congressman i'm sorry. to be clear, there was a lot of talk in kiev at that time about whether the new team would be prosecuting the former president. i had met with the president before any opposition as well. i wanted to call mr. earmarks attention to the problems and i'm very familiar with other examples that have gone for prosecutions of the former government. these have created deep divisions in the society. so i cited president zelensky's inauguration speech -- i'm sorry, his national speech from august 24th and it was all about unifying the country. i cautioned mr. yermak saying that pursuing prosecution of president pushing go risks deepening the opposite of president zelensky as he wants to do. it's >> fair to describe that you discouraged him from such action? >> i discouraged him on the potential impact and what was mr. yermak's response. >> i am professionals in saying tha

mr. lutsenko in ukraine. if people see that i who have been, you know, promoting our policies on anticorruption, if they can undermine me and get me hold out of ukraine, what does that mean for our policy? do we still have the same policy? how are we going to formally put that forward, number one. number two, when other countries, other actors and other countries see that private interests, foreign interests can come together and get a u.s. ambassador removed, what's going to stop them from doing that in a future in other countries? often the work we do we try to be diplomatic about it, but as deputy assistant secretary george kent said, sometimes we can get people really angry with us. uncomfortable. and we are doing our job but sometimes people become very angry with us. and if they realize that they can just remove us, they are going to do that. >> how did the deputy secretary respond? >> he said those were good questions, and he would get back to me. >> did he ever get back to you? >> he asked to see me t

mr. lutsenko's allegations. and mr. lieu send company utsen clients of rudy giuliani. so the bottom line again, we have a witness saying, look, this is what happened. yovanovitch herself responded to what the whistleblower said by saying that there is a lot of concern for me, that i needed to be on the next plane home to washington. so i was like what happened? and she said i don't know, but this is about your security. you need to come home immediately. and she said you need to come home on the next plane and i said physical security and on and on it goes. bottom line, you can see the th saying about being yanked out of that job. she believes that she was standing in the way of something that the president's people wanted to do in ukraine, again, supporting the idea that there was this sort of shadow state department action going on through his private attorney, not through the official channels that are sanctioned by the government and by proxy by the taxpayers. >> and side note on all of this, just an aside, is by all accounts, ambassador yovanovitch was doing the j

mr. lutsenko. >> and if not entirely made up, was primarily nontrue. let's discuss now. good evening.ou've been doing a lot of research into this. how closely woven is this? >> i think right wing media's finger prints are all over this. this is where the seeds were laid in march and april before most of us have heard about the crazy conspiracy theories and about the prospect of interfering in ukrain. i think sean hannity and tucker carlson are certainly involved. and john solomon who did work for the hill no longer does. he is now a paid fox contributor. he worked to get this stuff in the media and the result is what we're seeing now, the president has bought into a phoney line of thinking about ukrain and that may well end up ruining his presidency. >> the monitors in our office are different. it's like a big scoop and this is going to happen and theyler investigating this and this and then -- >> it never comes. it's always tune in tomorrow. part of this alternative universe of information but it is powerful millions buy into it and that's why i think we have 250 analyze the way we d

mr. lutsenko. public opinion polls indicated that ukrainians did not believe the laelgss. following the allegations they asked her integrity and questioned removing her from office. she was also making public statements for the interference in ukraine and issues relaced to buresma and the bidens. on may 1st, 2019, the "new york times" reports that rudy giulia giuliani ousted the republicans. mr. giuliani said he was part of the involvement w of former vic president biden's son in a you kranian gas company. in the next few months, mr. giuliani also issue add series of a tweets asking why biden should not be investigated attacking the new president of ukraine for being silent on the 2016 election and biden nexts and complaining for the "new york times" for attacking him. around this time the ukrainian presidential election was approaching and a political newcomer, president zelensky was surging in the polls. on april 20th, i was present for the third and final meeting with thenme candidate zelensky. as in the two pyrer meetings, they had an entirely pleasant conversation and

mr. lutsenko, the former ukrainian prosecutor general who made that allegation has acknowledged that the list never existed. also untrue are unsourced allegations that i told unidentified embassy employees or ukrainian officials that president trump's orders should be ignored because he was going to be impeached or for any other reason. i did not, and i would not say such a thing. such statements would be inconsistent with my training as a foreign service officer and my role as an ambassador. the obama administration did not ask me to help the clinton campaign or harm the trump campaign, nor would i have taken any such steps if they had. partisanship of this type is not compatible with the role of a career foreign service officer. i have never met hunter biden, nor have i had any direct or indirect conversations with him. and although i have met former vice president biden several times over the course of our many years in government service, neither he nor the previous administration ever raised the issue of either burisma or hunter biden with me. with respect to mayor giuliani, i have

. >> and i believe you also said that president lutsenko was the source of some of mr. giuliani's public views and allegations, is that right? >> yes, sir. so about two weeks before the press kind of wave that we saw targeting ambassador yovanovitch became public, an embassy contact reported to us privately that mr. lutsenko was sending thesenk messages and had met wi an american journalist to try to get those messages out. >> what was the u.s. embassy in ukraine's view of prosecutor general lutsenko? >> he was not a good partner. he had failed to deliver on the promised reforms that he had committed to when he took office. and he was using his office to insulate andic protect politica allies while presumably enriching himself. >> anotheren way to describe th corrupt? >> yes. >> now i'm going to take a look at a couple excerpts from this july 25th call with you and the first one occurs right after president zelensky thanked president trump for the united states' support in the area of defense. president trump immediately then says, i would like you to do us a favor, tho

mr. lutsenko? >> yes. >> that he -- could you -- >> so did mr. lutsenko have much credibility within the zelensky regime? current, the current regime? >> i don't think so. >> he didn't. do you know of any other ukrainians that mr. giuliani was meeting with that was part of the zelensky regime? >> just to remind, i would have already have left ukraine by that point so i'm not aware. >> even with the administration to come, right? zelensky won the election. there was a two-month period of preparing to be installed as president. even during that time were you aware of any -- >> there was, so there is a, one of the oligarchs as we've heard about, one of the oligarchs met with mr. fruman and mr. parnas when that was apparently to get a meeting for mr. giuliani. >> but those are not people actually in government or became in the zelensky regime. is that correct? >> no. >> okay. mr. chairman, i yield back. thank you. >> mr. castro. >> thank you, chairman an thank you ambassador for your 33 years of service to our nation. a big question here today is why

mr. lutsenko. go hook he up with bar and your friends. >> i need to register. >> what if they're not going to pay you? >> it's not necessarily the payment. it's your loyalty as a lawyer. who are you working for? and that can trigger the fara requirements as well. >> we have what this means for mr. giuliani, which is a little gray, we have to have more facts. the fact they had a signature on an agreement but did you act on that agreement. that would be the key fact. jennifer, what does this say about the situation? well, if nothing else, it makes it look shady, which is what it has looked all along. what does it mean for the politics of impeachment? >> well, first of all, let's be clear that this -- if this were consummated and we don't know, obviously these are documents we're not exactly sure if they were from the southern district of new york where he's under investigation, but we don't know exactly what it is. if it was, it would show a huge conflict of interest. >> help people understand, jenni

mr. lutsenko, the former prosecutor general, was in communication with mayor giuliani and that he had plans and that they were going to, you know, do things, including to me. it became clear, she said, that the goal was removing her from her post. one point of contention, her alleged role in blocking giuliani's effort to bring ousted ukrainian prosecutor viktor shokin to the u.s., apparently in pursuit of giuliani's political mission for the president. following longstanding protocol, an american consular officer denied him a visa because of his alleged ties to large-scale corruption. now, remember president trump and giuliani, they are now claiming that all they cared about was fighting corruption in ukraine. but the guy they are trying to bring to the u.s. is himself considered corrupt by diplomats who actually know about corruption in ukraine. ambassador yovanovitch picks up the story. quote, and the next thing we knew, mayor giuliani was calling the white house as well as the assistant secretary for consular affairs saying that i was blocking the visa for mr. shokin and that mr. shokin

mr. lutsenko has any gravitas within the zelensky regime? >> i don't know. he was the old attorney general. >> ultimately got fired in august. >we know that mr. giuliani has met with yermak. do you know any other ukrainian official within the zelensky regime that mayor giuliani was meeting with? >> i don't know who mr. giuliani was meeting with. >> had you had any conversations with ukrainian officials within the zelensky regime that came to you and said hey, i just got off the phone with giuliani. what the hell is he talking about? >> i don't recall. >> would that be normal? in all your interactions with ambassadors and heads of states and governments, if there is some element of the u.s. government that they have spoken to, isn't it usually that they come in, talk to the ambassador, try to clarify the statement? is that a true characterization of high elements of diplomacy work. sticker that's a reasonable possibility. things work all kinds of different ways. >> when you met with president zelensky after the july 25 phone call. you met him on july 26, did t

mr. lutsenko have a meeting in new york in january where they are talking about these issues that giuliani says he is pursuing on behalf of his client, the president of the united states. everything having to do with joe biden and ukraine as well as these unproven allegations that ukraine meddled. they had that meeting in january and meet once again in warsaw in february. our understanding is the first draft contract for lutsenko to represent giuliani comes in february. so it's right exactly in the same time frame and our understanding is these contracts go through various itrations as there's a contemnplation how these arrangements might work, who might be a formal recipient of the money, how much would be paid and that continues february through april. ultimately we've been told none of them has been fully executed and mr. giuliani would not receive payment. >> what that the makes us think, however, if this reporting is accurate, and i believe it is is that while he's having these interactions there's this thing dangling over the interactions is the possibility lutsenko might be a client

mr. lutsenko, it became american politicians and pundits, et cetera, were repeating those allegations, i asked him for advice. >> it meant a lot to you. this is an extraordinary time. the advice meant a lot, and what was -- what was his advice? >> he suggested that i needed to go big or go home, and he said that the best thing to do would be to, you know, send out a tweet, praise the president, that sort of thing. >> and what was your reaction to that advice? >> well, my reaction was that i'm sure he meant well, but it was not advice that i could really follow. it felt partisan. it felt political. and i -- that was not something that i thought was in keeping with my role as ambassador and a foreign service officer. >> did he give you any specific suggestions on what to say about the president of the united states or just say something nice about him? >> yeah, just to praise him. >> thank you. i yield the balance to the chairman. >> i want to follow up on mr. quigley's line of questioning and harken back to something you were asked earlierment you were asked do you think you could have do