mr. mccasey, the attorney general back then, was never called to testify, and we find that very interesting because we want to get to reform. it would seem we would go back to when these kinds of things first started. again, mr. nelson, the head of atf, was not called to testify, and he is the one who has said under oath that he did not inform the attorney general of these tactics with regard to fast and furious, and he said that he didn't even know about it himself. if you listen to the testimony very carefully, you refer back to the report, clearly the attorney general has -- his testimony is consistent with what the report has stated, again, that he did not have knowledge of this. again, we are very pleased with the reforms that the attorney general is bringing about. we plan to work with him to make sure that those reforms come about. now you can hear from my other colleagues. >> go ahead. >> mr. norton. >> i want to say that unfortunately i think most of this hearing would have bored the american people, because they're looking to see what -- where's the meat? the meat was in the solut

mr. mccasey come here, and talk about wide receiver and his knowledge of that program in gun running. mr. holder, i assume there's a law that specifically forbids the trafficking of firearms, particularly if that trafficking ends up arming drug cartels or if the weapons are subsequently found at crime scenes. is that not the case? >> we don't have a federal trafficking sach yut. that's one of the things that we are working for. now, there are -- >> i'm sorry. forgive me. we don't have such a law? >> no. that is one of the things that we have been trying to get congress to consider and to pass. >> well, now, you've appeared before congress many times, six on the subject. has any of -- any of the congressional committees summoning you to testify at a hearing on that law, the need for such a law? >> no. >> despite our concern about deaths and violence and an operation gone bad? we haven't had a hearing on trying to forbid the trafficking of firearms and making it a federal penalty? >> would the gentleman yield? >> i prefer not to, mr. chairman. please, mr. holder, answer the question. >>

mr. mccasey, be invited to the committee to testify about what he knew and when he knew it about the program analogous to the fast and furious in the bush administration. >> we will attempt to glean that information. i don't know if it will be by personally having somebody come. we do intend to glean information from prior administrations as to the level of coverage. i'll work with the gentleman on that. i might, though, note that of the six times the attorney general has appeared, for example, through the appropriations committee, he may have been asked a question related to fast and but that wasn't the purpose for which he came. i would only note that as far as i can tell, the department of justice has not submitted a request for a federal firearms law to congress. and so i know that the gentleman is very concerned about these laws. asking congress to come up with ideas for laws is actually seldom the way the administration would like it. i might mention to the gentleman that if the attorney general and justice came wup with a propose firearm law that might be a good start to answering you