mr. mccaul must be a toad. >> well, it's par for the course.very accomplished, qualified people. but the plan right now is basically objestruction, to kee everything locked down. you saw it with the shutdown. it's all of a piece. it's all of a piece. the -- >> and the driving force is what? >> well, it depends how big you want to cast -- >> what is it, philosophically such a hatred of government, they want to see government fail? >> i think it's a little more than that. i think it's that right now the right wing of the republican party, the people who back the right wing of the republican party, see the country moving in the direction that is away from what they know. away from what they are comfortable with. it's a -- it's an america with a different sexual politics, with more racial diversity. all these things scare these people. and i think there's a perception that it's going to be hard to win elections for those people going forward. the house is locked down, the presidency is difficult. still having problems with the senate. so what they