mr. mckinley: i yield the balance of my time to the chairman. the chair: the gentleman from oklahoma is recognized for the balance of the time. mr. lucas: i thank the gentleman from west virginia. i, too, want the best and brightens. that's why the core principal of the rule is disclosure. make sure we know where the money goes. mr. mckinley's taking this to the next point in this focus on following the money. i appreciate where he's coming from. i said earlier to my colleague from oregon this is a work in progress. we'll see ultimately what the final version is, but if you believe that the money should be followed, if you believe we should know where the dollars are, and if that impacts the science, then clearly, mr. mckinley's on the right path. i'm voting with him. it's a work in progress. yield back the balance of my time. the chair: the gentleman yields back the balance of his time. the gentlelady from oregon is recognized. ms. bonamici: thank you mr. chairman. again this amendment would cause the e.p.a. to be prevented from getting the best

mr. mckinley, for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman and thank you, administrator mccarthy, for appearing before us. let me start way question perhaps directly. is has the epa ever made a mistake? >> i'm quite sure. >> do you think any of those mistakes have led to a job loss? >> i can't answer that question. we certainly do our best not to make mistakes in the first place, and in the data that we see shows that job loss is not a consequence of environmental rules. >> i want to make sure that you understand and the public understands, i don't think there is a will in congress to do away with epa. >> that's good to know. thank you. >> i don't think there is the will to do that. i think that many of us here recognize that the epa has helped lead the way for clean air and clean water. but there is reaching a point someplace in this balance that we just want the epa to be more responsible and be more receptive to the impact your decisions are having on families. i think you're missing the point. two examples of that is the timing o

mr. mckinley. >> mr.secretary we had said chairwoman yellen in a few weeks ago and i asked her about the cumulative costs of regulations at the fed and fsoc were proposing. she referred to a study by the basel committee as a reference point that i pointed out that it's five years old and i read her mind you obviously in long before we fully implemented or got this far in the process of new regulations. but as chair of the fsoc has there have been an study done on the kimmitt of cost. >> congressman the regulators are attentive to the cumulative impact of the steps. >> so attentive but is there some point of reference for the cumulative cost of these new regulations? >> each one for example -- the. >> you can say no, it's okay. i'm just trying to get straightforward answer. >> i'm happy to answer the question. i'm trying to. if you look at each of the steps taken you can look and see with the capital requirements are and you can add up the burden as it were. it has been very clear that there was a goal of

mr. mckinley. >> mr. secretary we had said chairwoman yellen in a few weeks ago and i asked her about the cumulative costs of regulations at the fed and fsoc were proposing. she referred to a study by the basel committee as a reference point that i pointed out that it's five years old and i read her mind you obviously in long before we fully implemented or got this far in the process of new regulations. but as chair of the fsoc has there have been an study done on the kimmitt of cost. >> congressman the regulators are attentive to the cumulative impact of the steps. >> so attentive but is there some point of reference for the cumulative cost of these new regulations? >> each one for example -- the. >> you can say no, it's okay. i'm just trying to get straightforward answer. >> i'm happy to answer the question. i'm trying to. if you look at each of the steps taken you can look and see with the capital requirements are and you can add up the burden as it were. it has been very clear that there was a goal of

mr. mckinley, did. mr. selman, long before i was elected to congress i served 26 years in the air force and i was stationed in columbus, mississippi. and you know how rural that area is. so i've seen this for a long time. mr. gomez. does the gao track and can you tell us in regards to all urban and rural systems how many municipalities have their systems charged the true cost of providing water to their customers? in other words, how many of them are operating in the red? >> that's a really good question. and it's always one area that's debatable, right? whether people are actually paying the true price of what the water cost. i don't believe that we have done work on that. but if we have i'd have to get back to you on that. >> would you take a look at that, please? i think the american people would be interested to know how these small rural communities are struggling and many of them are operating in the red as it stands right now because their residents can't even afford the cost of providing the water.

mr. mckinley did, mr.ellman long before i was elected to congress ip served -- i served 26 years in the air force and stationed in columbus mississippi and you know how rural that area is. and so i've seen this for a long time. so does the gao track and can you tell us in regard to all urban and rural systems how many municipalities have their systems charge the true cost of providing water to their customers and how many are operating in the red? >> and that is debatable, whether people are paying the true price of what the water costs. i don't believe we have to -- we have done work in that but if we have, i would have to get back to work on that. >> would you take a look at that. i think the american people are interested to know how the small rural communities are struggling. and many of them are operating in the red as it stands right now. because their residents can't even afford the cost of providing the water. >> and i can also say that epa has estimated that for the rural communities, if they have

mr. mckinley and i picked up the m. employment statistics that camden county at the height of the recession 8.9 annual unemployment rate in 09, 8.9. at the end of 13 it's 9.8 because of regulations that are putting hundreds of thousands of coalminers and related industries, their jobs are gone. this is not counting the folks who have decided to retire or shutdown of businesses and are no longer looking for employment. that was dickinson county. height of the recession 2009 annual number 9.0 and today 10.0. our economy is getting worse because of policies coming from your agency and i apologize i can't let you answer that because i appeal back. >> the gentleman yields back good at this time i recognized him and from maryland mr. sarbanes for five minutes. >> thank you chairman mccarthy for being here. just on the last exchange i fear your legal justification for the department regulation was impugned. i have high confidence in way to know there's a strong legal basis for the regulations in the position you are taking. i

mr. mckinley and i picked up some unemployment counties. cannon county at the height of the recession had an 8.9 % annual unemployment rate. at the end of '13 it is 9.8% because of regulations putting hundreds and thousands of coalminers and related industries with jobs that are gone. this is not counting the folks that decided to retire or shuft down businesses and are no longer looking for employment. that was buck county. dickinson county height of the recession, 2009, 9.0% and today 2013, 10.0%. our economy is getting worse because of the policies of your nation. i apologize i can't let you answer. because i have to yield back. >> yielding back. mr. sar bins recognized for five minutes. >> thank you administrator mccarthy for being here. just on the last exchange i think -- i fear that the legal justification for the department's regulations were impugned i have high confidence that there is a strong legal basis for the regulations and the base you are taking and generally i want to thank the epa and the obama administration for picking

mr. mckinley, did.ong before i was elected to congress, i served 26 years in the air force and i was stationed in columbus, mississippi. and you know how rural that area is. so i've seen this for a long time. mr. gomez does the g.a.o. track and can you tell us in regards to all urban and rural systems, how many municipalities have their systems charged the true cost of providing water to their customers? in other words, how many of them are operating in the red? >> that's really good question and that's always one area that's debatable. whether people are actually playing -- paying the true price of what the water costs. i don't believe that we have done work on that. but if we have i'd have to get back to you on that. >> would you take a look at that, please? i think the american people would be interested to know how these small, rural communities are struggling and many of them are operating in the red, as it stands right now, because their residents can't even afford the cost of providing the water.