mr. mckinsey, to ask for an explanation. and through the course of the conversation was told by mr. mckinsey that she and i had, i quote, no right to any privacy. after further exchanges, i believe he hung up on her. >> thank you. paragraph 61 now, sir john. referring in our request of you to conversations, you had i think with -- noted in his diary. one of these on the fifth of december 2000, he recorded as having said you were quote, provoked by the continual attacks on you by the murdoch press and in the telegraph. but you set out in paragraph 61 your recollection of that conversation. but more importantly, your view of mr. murdoch a generally. can ask you, please, to address that? >> i don't remember the conversation with chris mullin. but he's a pretty honest guy. and what he writes that i said something much to me as though i might have said it to them. although he said the other side of the political fence, he was something of a distant friend to i don't mean a thing in the sense that a state of my house, but he had a -- which i rather admire. so i did talk to mr. mole. i thin