mr. mcmullen, mr. grant, and you deal with that -- you deal with it in paragraph 26 of your witness statements. >> yeah. >> and tell us about the encounter, and you ended up in the same cars, didn't you? >> yes. i broke down. >> yes. >> in my car in kent just before christmas last year, in the countryside, and i thought what am i going to do? i'm late for the appointment, and there was no taxis around, it was christmas eve, and icy, and a van pulled up in the carriageway, and thought, oh, good, a nice person has come to help, and instead, out stepped a man with a long lens. i thought i couldn't believe in the middle of kent in winter there was a pap, and he's coming over, taking pictures. i was not entirely polite to him, and then to my horror, i realized there was no other way to getting to the appointment. he asked if i wanted a lift, and i know it was in his interest, and finally i did, and i was in the car with this man, with my friend, and that is when he reviewedded he was an exnews of the world

mr. mcmullen as well. >> good luck. >> the position will be fully explored with him. >> yes. >> that's a vignette into the case. the mcmullen incident, but you also tell us about -- i am back in paragraph 27 of your witness statement. earlier this year officers come to see you and referred two other witnesses today to speak about this situation. your phone is being hacked. could you tell us a little bit about that meeting, please? >> yes. they rang my lawyer, wanted to show me some evidence. they came round and it was one of the previous witnesses today, explained -- it's quite a formal thing. they formally announce them and say would you have a look at this page. is there anything on there you recognize? i looked at this and i saw various phone numbers of mine and -- from the middle of 2005, something like that, together with some pin numbers, together with some access numbers. you used to get a separate phone number to ring your messages remotely from another phone and then there were other names i recognized on there, people around me, girlfriends, people i knew, words that all sort of

mr. paul mcmullen. you deal with it in paragraph 26 of your witness statement. >> yes. >> tell us about the chance encounter we read about. you ended up in the same car as ham. >> yes. i broke down in my car on the countryside just before christmas last year and thought "what am i going to do, i am late for my appointment?" amazingly, a van pulled up, and i thought some nice person has come to help, and instead stepped on man with a great long lens. he came over, and was taking lots of pictures. i was not entirely polite. i kept saying do you want a lift. finally i did, and i was in the car with this man and my friend, and that is when he revealed he was a former "news of the world" feature editor and he kept his camera in the glove box of his car in case of a happy accident. he went on to tell me these fascinating things, boasting about how extensive phone- hacking had been at "news of the world," how they had enjoyed the incredible sycophancy of five consecutive governments, the way they paid off poli

mr. mcmullen been drinking laughing spit he didn't seem drunk it all.spent and then you say, but why would they, the mail, by phone had story? isn't that a bit of an odd question, given he hadn't refer to a phone hacking story? >> is not an odd question at all given that he just done this strange segue. i was trying to get them back on the interesting. very interesting whether they were involved in phone hacking or not. so what i do there, i immediately, there's no dot dot dot, i say with a, then the, iphone hacking stories. to which he answered for for five years they were clean. before that they were as dirty as anyone. they had the most money. >> he is not giving any details their of any specific phone hacking activity by "the daily mail," has he? >> no. >> then we can read on, some of the rest of what he said is quite controversial, so it's probably best if i don't read it out. >> i thought this inquiry was -- >> but some of it is controversial in the sense, mr. grant, he names particular names of people who -- >> i would explain. you know perfectly

mr. mcmullen been drinking laughing spit he didn't seem drunk it all. spent and then you say, but why would they, the mail, by phone had story? isn't that a bit of an odd question, given he hadn't refer to a phone hacking story? >> is not an odd question at all given that he just done this strange segue. i was trying to get them back on the interesting. very interesting whether they were involved in phone hacking or not. so what i do there, i immediately, there's no dot dot dot, i say with a, then the, iphone hacking stories. to which he answered for for five years they were clean. before that they were as dirty as anyone. they had the most money. >> he is not giving any details their of any specific phone hacking activity by "the daily mail," has he? >> no. >> then we can read on, some of the rest of what he said is quite controversial, so it's probably best if i don't read it out. >> i thought this inquiry was -- >> but some of it is controversial in the sense, mr. grant, he names particular names of people who -- >> i would explain. you know perfectl