mr. meadows. did you tell mr. meadows that people were getting closer to the capitol? at pole was having difficulty? >> after had the conversations withr. meadows - with tony, i want to have the coersations with mr. meadows. he was in a secure vehicle at the time making a call. when i wenover to the car, i went over to theoor to let him know, and he immediately shut it. i don't know who he waspeaking with. it wasn'tomething he regularly did. especially when i would go over to give him information. so the bit- i was a bit taken aback. but i didn't think much of it. i thought i would be able to have a conversation with him a few moments later. >> were you able to have that conversation a few moments later? >> probably about 20-25 minutes later. there was another period in between where he shut the door again and once he got out of the vehicle, we had the conversation. there was information he should've made me aware of. >> when you finally were able to give mr. meadows the information about the viole

mr. meadows. with white house counsel, lawyers, and mr. tony arnoldo, who served as the white house deputy chief of staff. she also worked on a daily basis with members of the secret service posted in the white house. in short, she was in a position to know a great deal about the happenings in the trump white house. she has already set for for videotape interviews with committee investigators and we thank her very much for her cooperation and for her courage. we will cover certain but not all relevant topics within our knowledge today. our future hearings will supply greater detail, putting the testimony today in a broader and more complete context. today you will hear her relate certain first-hand observations of his conduct on january 6. you will also hear new information regarding the actions and statements of mr. trump's senior advisor's that day. including his chief of staff mark meadows and white house counsel. we will begin to examine evidence bearing on what president trump and members of t

mr. meadows. did you tell mr. meadows that people were getting closer to the capitol, and the capitol police were having difficulty? >> after i had the conversation with mr. meadows, mr. -- after i had the conversation with mr. ornato i went to have the discussion with mr. meadows, he was making a call, and i went to open the door to tell him, he immediately shut it. i don't know who he was speaking with. it wasn't something he regularly did, especially when i would go over to give him information. so i was a bit taken aback but i did not think much of it and thinking that i would be able to have the conversation with him a few moments later. >> and were you able to have that conversation a few moments later? >> probably about 20 to 25 minutes later. there was another period where he shut the door again and when he finally got out of the vehicle we had the conversation. at that point there was a backlog of information he should have been made aware of. >> so you opened the door to the control car and mr. meadows pu

mr. meadows on january 2, 2021? >> i do. he met with mr. meadows in the evening of january 2, 2021. >> and we understand that you walked mr. giuliani out of the white house that night, and he talked to you about january 6. what do you remember him saying? >> as mr. giuliani and i were walking to his vehicles that evening, he looked at me and said something to the effect of, cass, are you excited for the 6th? it's going to be a great day. i remember looking at him saying, rudy, could you explain what's happening on the 6th? he had responded something to the effect of, we're going to the capitol. it's going to be great. the president's going to be there. h's going to look powerful. he's -- he's going to be with the members. he's going to be with the senators. talk to the chief about it, talk to the chief about it. he knows about it. >> and did you go back then up to the west wing andell mr. meadows about your conversation th mr. giuliani? >> i did. after mr. giuliani had lefthe campus that evening, i went back up to our office and i found mr.

and he then urge me to continue relaying that to mr. meadows. because it's my understanding that mr. civil oni thought that mr. matters was indeed pushing this along with the president. and we understand miss edison. you also spoke to mr. sid baloney, on the morning of this 6th, as you were about to go to the rally on the ellipse. and mr. sybil on he said something to you, like make sure the movement to the capitol does not happen. is that correct? that's correct. i saw mr. smith learning right before i walked out on to west exact that morning, and mr. se suboxone said something, 3 a fact of please make sure we don't go up to the capital capacity. keep in touch with me. we're going to get charge of every crime imaginable. if we make that movement happen, and do you remember which crimes mr. cip lunney was concerned with in the days leading up to the sex, we had conversations about potentially obstructing justice or defrauding the electoral coun. let's hear about some of those concerns that you mentioned earlier. and one of your interviews with us

mr. meadows. throughout the afternoon, he mentioned a few more times going up to the willard hotel that evening then eventually dropped the subject the night of the 5th and said he would dial in instead. >> so general flynn has appeared before this committee and when he appeared before our committee, he took the fifth. let's briefly view a clip of general mike flynn taking the fifth amendment. general flynn, do you believe the violence on january 6th was justified? >> can we have a minute? >> yes. >> all right. i'm back. could you repeat the question, please? >> yes. general flynn, do you believe the violence on january 6th was justified? >> is that, can i get clarification? is that a moral question or -- >> i'm asking both. do you believe the violence on january 6th was justified morally? >> take the fifth. >> you believe the violence on january 6th was justified legally? >> fifth. >> general flynn, do you believe in the peaceful transition of power in the united states of america? >> the fifth.

mr. meadows. so did you tell mr. re getting closer to the capitol and that capitol police was having difficulty? >> after i had the conversation with mr. meadows, mr. -- after i had the conversation with mr. ornodo, i went to have the discussion with mr. meadows. she he was in a secure vehicle at the time making a call. when i went to open the door to let him know, he immediately shut it. i don't know who he was speaking with. it wasn't something that he regularly did, especially when i would go over to give him information. so i was a bit taken aback, but i didn't think much of it, and thinking that i was -- would be able to have the conversation with him a few moments later. >> and were you able to have that conversation a few moments later? >> probably about 20 to 25 minutes later. there was another period between where he shut the door again, and then when he finally got out of the vehicle, we had the conversation. at that point, there was a backlog of information that he should have been made aware of. >> and so

and you also described a brief meeting between mr or nato and mr. meadows on the potential for violence. the meeting was on january 4th, they were talking about the potential for violence on january 6. let's listen to a clip of that testimony. remember mr or not, i had talked to him about intelligence reports. i remember mister and i was coming in saying that we had in power report saying that there could potentially be violence on this on the sick. you also told us about reports of violence and weapons at the secret service were receiving on the night of january 5th and throughout the day on january 6th. is that correct? that's correct. there are reports that police in washington d. c. had arrested several people with fire arms or ammunition falling, a separate pro, trump rally and freedom plaza on the evening of january 5th. or those some of the reports that you recall hearing about. they are. of course, the world now knows that the people who attacked the capital on january 6th at many different types of weapons. when a president speaks, the secret service typically requires those at

i am under the impression that mr meadows | mr stone on the fifth?d general— complete both calls to mr stone and general flynn the evening of the fifth _ general flynn the evening of the fifth. : :, , :, general flynn the evening of the fifth. : :, i. ~ :, ., , fifth. and do you know what they talk about that _ fifth. and do you know what they talk about that evening? - fifth. and do you know what they talk about that evening? i'm - fifth. and do you know what they talk about that evening? i'm not | talk about that evening? i'm not sure. is talk about that evening? i'm not sure- is it _ talk about that evening? i'm not sure. is it your— talk about that evening? i'm not sure. is it your understanding i talk about that evening? i'm not i sure. is it your understanding that mr giuliani, _ sure. is it your understanding that mr giuliani, mr _ sure. is it your understanding that mr giuliani, mr eastman, - sure. is it your understanding that mr giuliani, mr eastman, and i sure. is it your understanding that i mr giuliani, mr eastman, and others had set up

mr. meadows detail with me. those individuals, and a few others and they were getting notifications through their radios and mr. ornato called me and said make sure the chief knows they're getting close to the capitol and they're planning on stacking bodies. >> when you said they were having trouble stacking bodies, did you mean law enforcement at the capitol needed more people to defend the capitol from the rioters? >> it was becoming clear to us and the secret service that capitol police officers were getting overrun outside of the security barricades and they were short of people to defend the building against the rioters. >> and you mentioned that mr. ornato conveyed this to you because he wanted you to tell mr. meadows. so did you tell him that the capitol police were having difficulty? >> after i had the conversation with mr. meadows -- mr. ornato, i went to tell mr. meadows. he informs a secured vehicle having a phone call. he immediately shut the door. i don't know who he is speaking with. that is not som

mr. meadows called mr. stone on the fifth? 'm under the impression meadows did complete both a call to stone and general flynn. the evening of the fifth. >> now, committee vice chair liz cheney noted that cassidy hutchinson has no detailed knowledge of any planning involving the proud boys for january 6. unquote. but the committee does seem to be suggesting that none of this is a coincidence. >> on january 5 and 6, mr. stone was photographed with multiple members of the oath keepers. who were allegedly serving as his security detail. >> in fact, oath keeper hours after being seen with roger stone outside the hotel, was photographed on steps at the eastern side of the capitol wearing goggles and other equipment. he is also seen in images near flynn in december. he was arrested last march. he pleaded not guilty for his role in the insurrection. described by prosecutors as having quote forcibly stormed the u.s. capitol equipped with military style gear. unquote. oath keeper josh james who pleaded guilty to sedition conspiracy thre

mr. meadows, and asked me to meet with mr. johnson. and i told him this whole thing about italy had been debunked and that should be the end of that. and i certainly wasn't going to meet with this person. and he initially seemed to accept that and he said why won't you meet with them i? said, because if he has real evidence? , which this video doesn't show, he can walk into an fbi field office anywhere in the united states -- this 55 of them and. andy said, okay. then he called me back a few minutes later and complained and said i, didn't tell you, but this fellow johnson is working with rudy giuliani and mr. giuliani is really offended that you would think they have to go to an fbi field office. that's insulting. so can you just have the fbi or, you meet with these guys? and by then i was somewhat agitated and told him that there was no way on earth that i was going to do that, i wasn't going to beat with johnson, i certainly wasn't going to beat with mr. giuliani, i made that clear repeatedly and said that santa that, don't worry tha

mr. meadows ever intended to go to the hotel on that night? ms. hutchinson: he had a conversation with me where he wanted to work with the secret service -- with mr. giuliani in the associates in the war room. rep. cheney: what was your view on that on whether mr. meadows should go or not? . hutchinson: i made it clear to him that i don't thk it was a smart idea for himo go to the hotel. i was unsure on everything that wagoing on their although i knew enough that -- on everything mr. giuliani and his associates were pushing during this perd. i did not think it was appropriate forhe white house chief of staff to attend or involved in that. i madehat car to m. he mtioned few more times going to the hotel that evening an eventually dropped th suect the night of the bit and said he would dial in instead. rep. cheney: general flynn has appeared before this committee d whene appeared, he took the fifth. let's vi a clip of genal michael flynn taking the fifth amendment. >> do you believe the violence on january was justified? -- january 6 was justified? y

mr. meadows should go or not? ms. hutchinson: i made it clear to him that i don't think it was a smart idea for him to go to the hotel. i was unsure on everything that was going on their although i knew enoh that -- on everything mr. giuliani and his associates were pushing during this period. i did not think it was appropriate for the white house chief of staff to attend or involved in that. i made that clear to him. he mentioned a few more times going to the hotel that evening and eventually dropped the subject the night of the bit and said he would di in instead. rep. cheney: general flynn has appear before this committee and when he appeared, he took the fifth. let's view a clip of general michael flynn taking the fifth amendment. >> do you believe the violence on january was justified? -- january 6 was justified? yes. >> could you are a peep question please? -- repeat the question? rep. cheney: do you believe the violence was justified? i am asking both. >> i plead the fifth. rep. cheney: you believe the balance

mr. meadows, and asked me to meet with mr. johnson.ld him this whole thing about italy had been debunked and that should be the end of that. and i certainly wasn't going to meet with this person. and he initially seemed to accept that. he said, you know, why won't you meet with them? i said because if he has real evidence -- which this video does not show -- he can walk into an fbi field office anywhere in the united states, there's 55 of them. and he said, ok. but then he called me back a few minutes later and complained, and said, i didn't tell you, but this fellow johnson is working with rudy giuliani. and mr. giuliani is really offended that you think they have to go to a fbi field office. that's insulting. so couldn't -- couldn't you just have the fbi or you meet with these guys? and by then i was somewhat agitated and told them that there was no way on earth that i was going to do that. i wasn't going to meet with mr. johnson. i certainly wasn't going to meet with mr. giuliani. i'd made that clear repeatedly. and so that's the en

mr. meadows did seek that pardon, yes, ma'am. >> mr. meadows did seek that pardon. we invited mr. meadows and his lawyer to come on the program or give us a statement and got no reply. same goes for pat cipollone, the pat who is under subpoena to appear before the committee. cipollone is consistently portrayed counseling against every bad act under scrutiny frrks mark meadows to the former president, going to the capitol from the inflammatory content in his speech to his refusal to call off the riots. cassidy hutchinson testified, he said, quote, we're going to get charged with every crime imaginable. the former president certainly wanted to go to the capitol and was furious when told he could not go. both the secret service and former white house staffer tony orr nadeau have since disputed ms. hutchinson's account that the former president grabbed the steering wheel. the agency saying it will need the agents in question to testify under oath. attorneys for cassidy hutchinson provided cnn a statement which reads in part, ms. hutchinson stands by all the testimony she provided yeste

mr. meadows. he asked me to meet with mr. johnson. i told him this whole thing about italied that been debunked. that should be the end of that. i certainly wasn't going to meet with this person. he initially seemed to accepted that. he said, you know, why won't you meet with him? if he has real evidence, which this video doesn't show, he can walk into an fbi field office anywhere in the united states. there's 55 of them. he said okay. he called me back a few minutes later and complained and said i didn't tell you, but this fellow, johnson, is working with rudy guliani and mr. guliani is really offended that you think that they have to go to an fbi field office. that's insulting. couldn't you just have the fbi or you meet with these guys? by then i was somewhat agitated. told him that there was no way on earth that i was going to do that. i wasn't going to meet with mr. johnson. i certainly wasn't going to meet with mr. guliani. i made that clear repeatedly. and so that's the end of that. don't raise this with me again. so because mr.

mr. meadows, and asked me to meet with mr. johnson. and i told him this whole thing about italy had been debunked and that should be the end of that. and i certainly wasn't going to meet with this person. and he initially seemed to accept that and he said why won't you meet with them i? said, because if he has real evidence? , which this video doesn't show, he can walk into an fbi field office anywhere in the united states -- this 55 of them and. andy said, okay. then he called me back a few minutes later and complained and said i, didn't tell you, but this fellow johnson is working with rudy giuliani and mr. giuliani is really offended that you would think they have to go to an fbi field office. that's insulting. so can you just have the fbi or, you meet with these guys? and by then i was somewhat agitated and told him that there was no way on earth that i was going to do that, i wasn't going to beat with johnson, i certainly wasn't going to beat with mr. giuliani, i made that clear repeatedly and said that santa that, don't worry tha

mr. meadows ever intended to go to the hotel on the night of the six? it was mr. a conversation with me where he wanted me to work with secret service on a moving from the white house to the bullard hotel so he can attend the meeting with mr. giuliani and his associates. >> and what was their view as to whether or not mr. medal should go to the willard that night? >> i had made it clear to mr. meadows that i did not believe it was a smart idea for him to go to the hotel that night and i was not sure everything that was going on at the hotel although i knew enough about mr. giuliani and his associates were pushing during this period. i didn't think it was something appropriate for the white house chief of staff to attend or consider involvement in. i made that clear to mr. meadows throughout the afternoon he mentioned a few more times going up to the hotel that evening and eventually dropped the subject the night of the fifth and said he would ihlen instead. >> listening to that, what do you think the committee is trying to do here? >> this was the part of the testi

mr. meadows, because it's my understanding that mr. cipollone thought that mr. along with the president. >> and we understand, this hutchinson, you also spoke to mr. cipollone on the morning of the six, as you were about to go to the rally on the ellipse. and mr. cipollone said something to you like, make sure the movement to the capitol does not happen. is that correct? >> that's correct. i saw mr. cipollone right before i walked out onto my desk that morning. and mr. cipollone said something to the effect of, please make sure we don't go up to the capital, cassidy, keep in touch with me. we're going to get charges for every crime imaginable, if we make that movement happen. >> and do you remember which crimes mr. cipollone was concerned with? >> in the days leading up to the six, we had conversations about potentially, obstructing justice, or defrauding the electoral count. >> the white house counsel said, we'd be ged with, quote, every crime imaginable. if the white house staff in any way facilitated trump himself going to congress, going up to the capitol bui

mr. meadows on january 2nd, 2021? >> i do. he met with mr. meadows in the evening of january 2nd, 2021. >> and we understand that you walk to mr. giuliani out of the white house that night. and he talked to you about january 6th. what do you remember him saying? >> as mr. giuliani and i were watching walking two vehicles that evening, he looked at me and said something to the effect of, gosh, [inaudible] excited for the sixth, it's going to be a great day. i remember looking at him saying, rudy, could you explain what is happening on the sixth? and he had responded something to the effect of, we are going to the capitol, it's going to be great, the president is going to be there. he is going to look powerful, he is going to get the members, he is going to be with the senators. talk to the chief about it, talk to the chief about it, he knows about it. >> and did you go back, then, up to the west wing and tell mr. meadows about your conversation with mr. giuliani? >> i. did after mr. giuliani had left the campus that evening, i went back up to o

mr. meadow's aid, ben william son and white house deputy press secretary sara matthews tested that mr. meadows went to the dining room nearby the oval office to tell the president about the violence at the capitol before the president's 2:24 p.m. tweet. in future hearings you'll hear exactly what was happening at the white house at that time. here is what some white house staff told select committee. >> do you know where you went. >> yes, i followed him down the hallway. and i followed him into the outer oval corridor, which is hallway between the oval office hallway and the outer oval section of the oval office. i followed him into that little corridor hallway. i saw him walk into outer oval. i maybe took a step into outer oval and left. and i don't know where he went outside of that but it looked like he was headed in the direction of the oval office. >> we had all talked about -- at that point, about how it was bad and the, you know, situation was getting out of hand, and i know ben williamson and i were conferring and thought that the president needed to tweet something immediately.

and what was mr. meadows reacting for that information? i believe the words he used were so there's no there, there. there's no there, there. the trump campaigns, general counsel mat morgan gave similar testimony. he explained that all of the fraud allegations and the campaigns, other election arguments taken together and viewed in the best possible light for president trump could still not change the outcome of the election. president trump's attorney general bill bar also told donald trump his election claims were wrong. peter lee told the president no uncertain terms. i did not see evidence of fraud. and that would have affected the outcome of the election. and frankly, a year and a half later, i haven't seen anything to change my mind on that attorney general bar also told president trump that his allegations about dominion voting machines were groundless. i saw absolutely 0 basis for the allegations, but they were made in such a sensational way that they obviously were influencing a lot of people. members of the public that there was,

mr. meadows, where mr. meadows was asking me when i was finding and if i was finding anything. i remember sharing with him that we weren't finding anything that would be sufficient to change the results in any of the key states. >> what was that conversation? >> probably in november. mid to late november. i think it was before my child was born. >> [inaudible] meadows [inaudible] that information. >> i believe the words he used was, so, there is no there there. >> there is no they are there, in mid to late november, from mark meadows. that is new. but knowing that fact did not stop meadows from pushing trump's big lie in public and in private for months as he helped enable the coup. >> the committee also revealed brand-new testimony from trump attorney general bill barr and the presidents own daughter ivanka, who both said they did not believe that trump won the election. >> i made it clear i did not agree with the idea of saying that the election was stolen and putting out this stuff, which i told the president was bs. i didn't want to be a part of it. if you can't live in a w

mr. meadows, where mr. meadows was asking me what i was finding and if i was finding anything? i remember sharing with him that we were not finding anything that would be sufficient to change the results in any of the key states. >> next, trump turned to the department of justice to help peddle his election lies. when the officials there refused to go along with it, trump hacked a plan to replace those officials. and the days before the attack, trump ordered the top doj officials to, quote, just say that the election was corrupt and leave the rest to me and the republican congressman. at the same time, trump launched a pressure campaign on his vice president, mike pence, concocting shambling go arguments in an attempt to convince pence that he was obligated to overturn the results of the 2020 election. we know that was false. one judge that actually reviewed the general six evidence said that if mike pence had gone along with trump 's plan, it would have, quote, permanently ended the peaceful transfer of power, undermining the american democracy and constitution. then trump bro

mr. trump over turning tables in fits of rage. >> and mark meadows' detachment the 6th. and here's about efforts to get the former president to stop the violence that day. >> not long after the rioters broke into the capitol, you described what happened with white house counsel, pat. >> no more than a minute, minute and a half later, i see pat barrelling towards the office and said is mark in his office? and i said yes. he looked at me and started shaking his head. and went over opened mark's office door, stood with the door propped open and mark is on his phone. i remember he's still sitting on his phone. and i remember pat saying to him something to the effect of the rioters have got to the capitol, mark. we need to go see the president now. and mark said he doesn't want to do anything, pat. and pat said something to the effect of and very clearly said this to mark. something to the effect of mark, something needs to be done or people are going to die and the blood'ses going to be on your f'ing hands. >> in subsequent testimony she said her boss said the president didn