mr. minner ever came to terms with his own guilt, and how you, as a lawyer, represented him in the courtroom, -- when, if, and how mr. mcnair ever came to terms? >> it was one of those situations, tavis, where it was a crime of intent. defense lawyers try cases of intent. when there were so other -- many other mitigating factors that we were able to show in court, if the relationship between chris and the contractors that went back years and years, even with one of the contractors. two of them got convicted. very close relationships. which also said something about chris mcnair as a man. all of these contractors were white, and he had developed these relationships over many years. we were also able to show that this was not going into anything that was personal. he was not living a lavish lifestyle. this was going into a business that would ultimately be for the community, for this memorial to his daughter, had a place for the community to come, have functions, so there was not as much personal benefit, but i also knew at the end of the day, chris mcnair's heart was right. i said, "talk to b