mr. mozilo did not need to worry about every loan he made. a lot of them went to fannie mae and were at the taxpayer's bottom line. >> later on in your book, you say that jim johnson was an early and a shift to the vip program. starting in 1998, he received six cut-rate loans from countrywide worth more than $10 million. you go on to this a bunch of others, including chris dodd, barbara boxer, richard holbrooke -- these are particularly all democrats. were there any republicans? >> their there were some republicans. i know that bob bennett, his son ran one of the partnerships. there was across the aisle perches a patient. >> this vip program -- >> it is hard to know. you did not understand, but you could be sure they got special treatment about the process, with a lower interest rate, those types of things. the lower interest rate has the real benefit over time in a mortgage. >> you say, at the beginning of your book, josh and i -- >> josh is my fabulous co- author, who is a genius in the analysis of financial institutions and housing finance