mr. neely's actions were wrong. i thought the conference went -- was clearly excessive -- >> i' not going to continue to beat up on the conference. i think that mr. cummings and mr. issa did a good job talk act the las vegas conference yesterday. this is about the overall culture. and you were the man in charge of the public buildings area that allowed all of these different trips. we're going to go into many other trips the gsa has gone through. the public buildings fund has been used not only on these nine trips but the lavish las vegas vacation and napa and everything else on your watch. not only the western region did but every other region. ms. norton? >> this question is not only for mr. peck. i've got to ask all of you sitting at the table because you all live with this system, this puzzled us yesterday at the government reform hearing. i sit on that committee as well. this notion about performance and conduct sounds very, very bureaucratic, but i can tell you one thing, that there's nobody in the real world,

but i'm very troubled by the bonus that mr. neely received. how can you justify a bonus for somebody that you knew at the time of his bonus from mr. miller, in fact, was at the center of this misconduct? >> congressman, there are two processes. one is the conduct process and one is the performance process. the conduct process by which i could discipline someone was wrapped up in an investigation which i requested from the i.g. it took much longer -- >> i appreciate that but -- were you aware that excess money was spent at that conference, significant excess? >> i had received a communication from the i.g. with non-conclusive results. i was concerned, i wanted the full picture. so when we moved to the performance cycle, the performance reviews for senior executives are based on a -- i was informed that his leasing processes were the model for the nation, leasing is one of our critical issues, i granted him a four. >> mr. miller, you gave that preliminary some 11 months before your final. i'm going to ask you something not normally asked. would y

mr. neely it stops now. the record indicates that mr. neely's wife personally handled party arrangements, directed the asbestoses of federal employees and ordered thousands of dollars in food and not at their expense, but the expense of taxpayers. in one case mr. neely's wife reportedly impersonated a federal employee so she could join him at a private sector conference. the impression conveyed by these documents is that mr. neely and his wife believe they were some sort of agency royalty who used taxpayer funds to bankroll their lavish lifestyle. they disregarded one of the basic tenants of government service. it's not your money. it's the taxpayers' money. some of my questions will be about the inspector general's religious to get some of that money back. i want to know who you we can recoup these funds. including from mr. neely and other gsa employees personally. i understand the justice department may be examining mr. neely's actions and he intends to invoke the fifth amendment today. that is his right under the constitution. and the

and i would argue, that the invisible man there, mr. neely, if he had thought this was his money, we wouldn't be here today. mr. chairman, i yield back. thank you. >> i thank the gentleman. and i would note for the record that we have not been able to get a clarification whether it's 6 or 10. it appears it could be 10 round trips with family in some cases, costing over $100,000 to find out what vegas was like. with that, we go to the gentleman from another region. the gentleman from texas. >> thank you, mr. chairman. and i generally applaud yours and the committee's selection of witnesses, but you've left out one important witness in that hearing. and that's the mind-reader. maybe he could tell us what some of these people were thinking when they did that. i do have a couple of comments and questions that hopefully you all could clear up for me. i'm really concerned about a pattern that we are seeing not just in this the gsa, but in the government overall about a lack of common sense or about it not being our money. you should have a higher r

>> the -- >> did mr. neely go on anymore trips? >> i do not know about mr. neely's travel. >> yes, you did. a lot. you didn't know about any of his travel? >> i did not know -- i did not track his travel, no. >> did you know about any of his travel? did anybody ever tell you he had upcoming trips? >> i believe that summer in august there was a meeting of all of the regional commissioners in austin. i believe he was there, so i knew he had traveled to austin. i was not monitoring his trips personally. i had -- >> the i.g. said get a handle on it. >> he gave that instruction -- >> the president had an executive order. we are cutting government. >> right. >> we are seeing cuts to military, to veterans. the president sure sees it's a big issue. there's seniors being cut. and the inspector general comes to you -- >> to the regional administrator. he said that himself. in august he informed the regional administrator she needed to get a handle on his travel. i had just put her into office. >> oig also advised administrator johnson to get a handle on the rc's travel

maybe you were not aware of what mr. neely was doing, or maybe you did not fully appreciate the level of abuse. and i agree with mr. walsh, this is abusing people, we're better than that. we're a better country than that and this is a better agency than that. but there's no question that mr. neely's actions were inappropriate and they should have been halted. and you were his supervisor, were you not? yes or no? >> no, sir, but i don't want to -- again, the way the gsa structure works, the public building, the regional commissioners did not report directly to the national commissioner. however, there is a very strong dotted line authority to the pbs national commissioner. so certainly i could exert control when i felt it necessary. >> and you were head of public buildings, were you not? >> yes, sir, yes, sir. >> thank you very much. >> thank you, mr. cummings. >> please tell you what you know about the 2010 intern conference in palm springs. i wonder if you can tell me, we heard about luxury suites and catered awards ceremonie

mr. neely's role has raised significant questions. he engaged in an indefensible and intolerable pattern of misconduct including repeatedly violating federal travel and procurement rules, holding lavish parties in luxury suites, and allowing his wife and other non-government officials to participate in some of these events at taxpayers' expense. in addition, the documents indicate he was aware his actions were inappropriate. in one e-mail, he invited personal friends to the conference, writing, we will get you a room near us. we will pick up the room tab. it will be of glass. did he then wrote this. -- it will be a blast. he then wrote this. i know i am bad. why not enjoy it a wild weekend? -- while we can? might as well enjoy it. it stops now. his wife directed to the actions of federal employees and ordered thousands of dollars in food at the expense of taxpayers. in one case, his wife reportedly impersonated a federal employee associated joining him -- so she could join him in a private conf

so in the last couple years, mr. neelyhas taken many trips to nap but come several trips on planning missions to las vegas. it all came in your ig report in may of last year. mrs. brita downgraded him on committee. mr. peck went ahead and gave him a bonus anyways. and then your new report came out, which i've got to hand it to you, this report was pretty detailed. this would have been several, i say, committee hearings just in having your initial report a year ago. so your new report comes out. now it's all hands on deck. everybody in gsa knows apparently because we've handed this report out. we see members hand this report too many people beyond martha johnson. the administration is now aware of it. and in several other trips happen, including the strip, a 17 day trip to the south pacific, to hawaii, honolulu, guam, saipan. an internal e-mail trying to justify it. but here's the personal e-mail at the bottom. where his wife asks about the schedule. he tells her it's going to be a birthday present for her. they're excited

mr. neely given a $9,000 raise in december of 2011 when he knee well over a year something ras wong? why didn't the agency director, ms. johns, notified by the inspector general this report would be forthcoming there were improprieties, terrible improprieties, why didn't she take corrective action then? it wasn't until the report was released april 2nd she decided to resign and then action was taken with other employees. i think you're going to see fallout here based on this testimony. i think there are some people, like mr. foley who testified yesterday, preserving himself to be more open to discuss what happened. so i think you'll see some serious personnel changes in gca. >> what about legislation on the floor to debate this soon? >> oh, yeah. oh, yes. yes. >> all right. let's take a look at gsa by the numbers here. it's 2011 budget was about $30 billion. the 2011 federal buildings fund, about $17 billion. has abouts 12,000 employees. 11 regional offices and in d.c. manages about $500 billio

mr. neely was aware that his actions were inappropriate in one case, he invited his friends. and i quote. we will pick up the room tab. it is going to be a blast. end of quote. he then went on and wrote to this. "i know i am bad. as i often say, why not enjoy it while we have it and why we can? it is not going to last forever." well, mr. neeley, m it stops now. it was found death that his wife handled party details, ordering food at not their expense but at the expense of taxpayers. in one case, his wife reportedly impersonated a federal employee so she could join him in a private sector conference. the impression conveyed by these documents is that he and his wife believe they were agency royalty, using taxpayer funds to bankroll their lavish lifestyle. they disregarded one of the most basic tenets of government service. it is not your money. it is the taxpayers' money. some of my questions today will be about the inspector general recommendation to get some of that money back. i want to know

>> yes, sir. >> mr. neely may have spent over a quarter of a million dollars during travel over five years. mr. peck, did you track the travel expenditures of regional administrators or commissioners bella -- or commissioners? >> the way we try to maintain control is by benchmarking the travel, training, information technology expenses of regions, balancing them for the amount of work load that they had. that is what the provisional manager was supposed to be tracking. i am not able to access that information anymore. i do not know how it is, but that kind of travel could have happened without review. >> you said that he did "a great job," over the years. you said that he shouldn't receive a positive performance rating and you defended him. i am having trouble understanding your position. maybe you did not fully appreciate the level of abuse. i agree with mr. walsh. this is abusing people. we are a better country than that. this is a better agency than that. but there is no question that the actions of mr. nee

mr. neely and his wife to believe they are some sort of royalty to use taxpayer funds to bankroll their lavish lifestyle. they disregarded one of the most basic tenets of government surface and -- servers. it is not your money. is the taxpayers' money. some of this will be about efforts to get this back. good are want to know how to get some of -- i want to know how to get some of this hour. i understand he intends to invoke the fifth amendment. that is his right. however, i do not support granting immunity at this time. on thursday, the chairman sent a letter to his attorney, suggesting the chairman was considering immunizing him. on friday his attorney responded positively, right thing that he will abide by the appropriate court order in 32 writing he will abide by the appropriate order. granting immunity is a serious action that should not be entered into lightly, since it could negatively impact prosecution. such a decision requires consultation with the justice department. our committee ha

yet mr. neely still went on a 17-day trip which he took his wife on, which they had a party and a birthday present. you have the e-mails to that. and then he went on another trip to hawaii for four days. and another trip to napa, where the entire executive team went, and spent over $40,000 without even the travel expenses on there. do you see how i have a hard time understanding how you took immediate action? >> congressman, upon receiving the report, i recognized that although i had tasked senior leaders with various responsibilities and oversight, clearly management controls had been breached. i fired the two people most immediately in the chain of command and i resigned. >> on february 17th, you received the report, you had no problems with the report, you knew that it was factual. did you meet with the white house then? >> not immediately. >> have you ever met with the president over this topic? >> no. >> any other administrative -- anybody else within the administration over the last 45 days?

it looks like mr. neely was in charge of mr. neely. let me ask you about howdy centralized this agency is, and whether it is decentralized to a fault. there is one theory of management, which is i think a very efficacious one that goes that if you delegate to managers, hands-on responsibility, you can hold them accountable, and they become more creative. and when you get a situation like this, one has to ask about whether or not the agency has any chain of command. whether -- if, for important issues like spending, the administrator at the top and the chief of staff can sit here and say, well, i don't know anything about it. one wonders whether this agency is simply run at the regional level with washington having no responsibility for holding the regions accountable. so i would like you to discuss what you think of the chain of command now, if you think it is too decentralized. if you think its operations and its budget and i think you said something about the cfo. but whether in general this agency has simply allowed itself to be run

mr. neely and the other public building service regional commissioners, who were they accountable to. mr. peck? >> gsa is a matrix organization. i know congressman north season concerned with this. it's a matrix organization in that the regional commissioners, both the acquisition and pbs service reported in two ways. they reported to their regional administrator who was the immediate representative of me in the region, and then they reported functionally to the commissioners because that's where they received their budgets and their strategic direction. it is a matrix like a corporation, it is not an easy one. it's not command and control like a military services. it is a matrix. and so -- >> i assume you think that's a problem. >> it was difficult to >> it was difficult to manage. it's always difficult to manage a matrix. >> or changing the matrix? mr. tingerlini? >> we're going to look at the matrix. clearly this form or structure created some issues and we're concerned about what it could c

the letter of reprimand for mr. neely, we know that mr. neely was essentially an island unto himself. he may be facing criminal charges. we believe one of the lightest forms of personality given his large responsibility and the commissioner the letter of reprimand that should take place here. especially since you understand why the president will fire you and all the top officials because of the responsibility that the top must have for what goes on, with those charged to him. >> mr. peck, i'll allow you to answer, but i would ask you to be brief. >> yes, sir. >> i believe -- it was under my impression and he was not asking the cvs not to take action against -- >> i believe he said any personnel action, and that's a personnel action, isn't zplit there was great conversation about what we could and could not do at that time given what me know about mr. neely. and i just note that a lot more facts have come out fend. at the time we took it into account, and i took it into account in his rating, and i spoke to the other regional commissions ab

mr. neely, what was the original budget for that conference? >> mr. chairman, on the advice of my counsel, i respectfully decline to answer based on my fifth amendment constitutional privilege. >> mr. neely are you currently employed by the gsa as federal employee? >> on the advice of my counsel i respectfully decline to answer based on my fifth amendment constitutional privilege. >> greta: jeffrey neely stonewalling didn't stop the lawmakers from giving him and other dsa officials a tongue lashes. listen to this. >> mr. neely, they believe they they were agency royalty, using taxpayer funds to bankroll the lavish lifestyle. they disregarded one of the most basic tenets of government service. it's not your money. it's the taxpayer money. >> and the $68,000 spent on yearbooks. do you believe mr. neely thought that was his money? >> i don't know what he was thinking. >> do you think it is your money? whose money is that? >> it's the taxpayers' money. >> tell me about results.gov. you highlight it as a great accomplishment of the gsa. what does it do? >>

maybe we need to put mr. neely on administrative leave in may of last year rather than waiting until the american public finds out about it. nothing happened for a year? and you allowed all these trips to continue on? multiple conferences? i mean, i can appreciate mr. tangherlini coming in and suspending the 35 conferences that are scheduled. how are they even scheduled? how didn't you stop those conferences? i'm amazed that with a recommendation from mr. miller that more wasn't done to stop this over the last year. mr. miller, i want to go back to something you said. you're going to be exhausted by the end of this week. in fact, i assume all of you will be. i don't know that -- i'm a freshman, only been here for a year and a half, but i have not seen four committee hearings on any topic yet. but in yesterday's testimony, mr. cummings, congressman cummings asked you a question. it took nine months to investigate. ms. johnson indicated that she was surprised it took that long. were you communicating with her regular

mr. neelyd you approve the funding for the 2010 western regional conference? >> mr. chairman, on the advice of my council i respectfully decline to answer based upon my fifth amendment constitutional privilege. (audience reacts). >> jon: we got pictures of you in a (bleep)ing tub throwing wine all over the place. what do you mean your fifth amendment. we got dress up, set up your yelling mics, give us something! >> what is your title at g.s.a.? >> mr. chairman, on the advice of council i respectfully decline tod... (audience reacts). >> jon: it's your job title. how could that incriminate you? just your... oh. all right, well that's... is this guy gonna admit anything? mr. neely, do yous repraeut, inhale oxygen, exhale carbon dioxide? >> on the advice of council, i decline to answer. >> jon: i've had experience dealing with these fellows before. here's how i handle these rep roe baits. mr. neely, did you know people who respectfully decline to answer on their advice of council eat doody? >> on

the last point i want to get to is the raise of mr. neely. i have this e-mail dated november 5th, 2011, which is certainly after -- significantly after you and others were briefed. about this incident. this circumstance. and your e-mail said, i spoke with bob yesterday afternoon. i would assume you're referring to bob peck. he's recommending a four, based on the extent to which jeff is achieving more results in leasing than anyone else and some other things he didn't delineate. i can support that if the steve jobs message is dead clear. next year, people have to have crackling good collaboration, slash people skills, to get above a three. i've made that adjustment in a couple other cases this year. it has to be in the message like a fire siren. yes on the bonus, he was also acting ra forever and a day. that's the entire body of the e-mail sent by you to susan britta with a cc to steve leads and bob peck regarding mr. neely's $9,000 -- i find it a little shocking that that would really be the only thing we have. the only correspondence we have

what would be the highest paid, for example, mr. neely, what was his pay or the person you put in over him in that region, what was their pay? >> i'm sorry, congressman, i don't know. i can certainly see if i can get you that information. >> mr. robertson, would you know? >> i think the gentleman hit on something which is we appreciate things being centralized but one of the questions is, do we have high ranking high paid civil servants in these regions going every back, because they're not responsible, perhaps we're paying more than we should support responsibility not met. >> my understanding is that in -- i believe all the regions, the regional commissioners are paid more than the regional administrators. >> but more than $100,000? >> significantly. >> i believe both of them are over that number, yes. >> thank you. >> mr. chair. >> yes. the regional commissioners are paid quite a bit. the regional administrator is at the gs-15 level. >> which would put him quite a bit below sas. mr. chaffetz is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you

robert shepherd and mr. neely for private inroom parties. i've canceled most travel through the end of the fiscal year agency wide and centralizing budget authority and vin already trawlized procurement oversight for regional offices to make them more directly accountable. i look forwarded to working in partnership with this committee to ensure there's full accountability for these activities so that we can beginton restore the trust of the american people. i hope that in so doing, gsa can refocus on its core mission saving taxpayers money by efficiently procuring supplies, services and real estate and effectively disposing of unneeded government property. we believe that there is seldom been a time of greater need for these services and the savings they bring to the government and the taxpayer. there is a powerful value proposition to a single agency dedicate odd this work, especially in these austere fiscal times. we need to insure we get back to the basics, conduct this work better than ever. at gsa, our commitment is our service, our dut

(laughter) >> mr. neely, did you attend the 2010 western regional conference in las vegas. >> mr. chairman, on the advice of my counsel i respectfully decline to answer based upon my fifth amendment constitutional privilege. >> stephen: that's right. he wouldn't answer any questions. if issa wants to get anything out of him he'll have to pay $3,200 for a mind reader. (cheers and applause) so the question is what is jeff neely hiding because in this picture it's not much. who is he protecting? who's really responsible? >> it happened under president obama's watch. >> that blame has to go right to the president. he's the guy in charge. he's the c.e.o. and his department heads are out there throwing out money away. you should put the responsibility where it lies. >> stephen: yes! the president is responsible for anything the government does while he's in office! i waited 17 minutes at the post office today and there was an empty window there the whole time. where was obama? (laughter) but, folks, that tub goes deeper. notice that there are two wine glasses in that photo. (audience re

mr. neely, what was the original budget for that conference? >> mr.irman, on the advice of my counsel, i respectfully decline to answer based upon my fifth amendment constitutional privilege. >> mr. neely, are you currently employed as an employee? >> mr. chairman, on advice of my counsel, i respectfully decline to answer based upon my constitutional fifth amendment privilege. >> are you prepared to answer any questions here today about your participation in the 2010 western regional conference. >> mr. chairman, i respectfully decline to answer any questions here based upon my fifth amendment constitutional privilege. >> you can see how that is going. we'll have much more. >>> the pentagon is saying more members of the military than initially reported may have played a part from alleged misconduct in colombia. so total here, may have been 21. it all allegedly happened before the president arrived in colombia and happened at a hotel he was not using. so you're talking 11 secret service agents and officers under investigation. they were sent home early.

mr. neely is taking the fifth. chairman of the committee, mr. as car theft and burning car -- >> okay. >> bob: leave it aside. i'm just saying there are allegations made. arrested on guns. but he was told that mr. neely was going to take the fifth. mr. issa decided to spend the taxpayer money to fly mr. neely across from california to say what he said that he would be told. that's beside the point. they are wasting your money, my money. >> greg: the hearing was about wasting money. >> bob: right. but he was going to take the fifth. >> eric: however, representative comings was also at that meetal and he was asking questions and pointed out that the gsa employees stayed at luxurious hotel. employees acted like it's their money. disgusting. have v to bring the information out and way to do it is through a hearing. going to say he'll take a fifth so we don't -- >> kimberly: placed on administrative leave. >> bob: fly all across the country to take the fifth. >> greg: they should have had the hearings in vegas. that way he would have come. if he was

mr. neely it stops now. but when lawmakers started asking questions he does not have much to say. mike, this executive, neely pled the 5th. >>reporter: he did and there is lots of talk about him and his alleged actions including the suggestion he brought his wife along to enjoy some of the perks, they invited friends to join in on the taxpayer-funded fun but when the chairman tried to ask him five different questions he offered the same answer. >> did you approve the funding for the 2010 western regional conference? >> on the advice of my counsel i respectfully decline to answer based on my 5th amendment constitutional privilege. >> mr. neely what was the original budget for that conference? >> mr. chairman i respectfully decline to answer based upon my 5th amendment constitutional privilege. >>reporter: another question asked by many in the hearing room, was how he, at center of this controversy, was given a $9,000 bonus. >>shepard: wow. mike, he didn't speak but some of the others did. what did they give f

and now they see mr. neelya lot tub on the taxpayer dime with a couple of drinks right there next to him, and the time is very bad causing real outrage and i think you reflect that i can hear it in your voice. >>guest: you have to remember this took place in 2010, and this guy is still a government employee and the idea he is not fired at this point is just so outrageous literally they spend hundreds of thousands getting clowns and other types of things, this is just total disregard and respect for the taxpayer money and the obama administration, this is a theme, there are a lot of different investigations and they do not fire anyone but they hire more people and there are 140,000 additional federal works since president obama took office and we see this massive spending and people have to write their own checks to fund it. it is absolutely intolerable. >>stuart: is he still being fired? >>guest: he is being paid. he is still collecting a check and he makes six figures that is what is so outrageous. he got $9,0

mr. neely? >> on the advise of council i decline to answer based on my 5th amendment constitutional privilege. >> did you attend the 2010 western regional conference? >> on the advise of my counsel i respectfully decline to answer on my 5th amendment privilege. >> all right, spending up. now the guy as the center of the storm, clamming up? taking the at when asked about the lavish $823,000 las vegas party. at the same time, the senate now moments away from voting on the buffett rule, the president's plan to hike taxes on the rip. but, today, taxpayers are asking, will any money raised by this fund more of this? >>stuart: welcome, everyone, this is "your world." tax delay a day away, and for those who owe, paying uncle sam seems even more painful this year because of where the tax dollars are going. lavish parties in las vegas. trips to hawaii. and. today, a congressional hearing in how your tax dollars are being spent. >> he wrote if a letter "we will get you guys a room near us, and we will pic

miller, it was after that interim that may of 2011 that mr. neely actually went on several trips after that report came out. i'm talking about two trips to hawaii, a trip to saigon, a trip to guam, a trip to napa valley and several other places. that correct? that. >> is correct, unfortunately. senator. >> all right. the -- mr. tangherlini, there are a total i guess of 11 regions if you count washington. and this was 7 -- or 8, 9, 10, or 11, i guess. are you aware of in the other areas, in the other ongoing investigations that you would feel comfortable talking about, do you know of any others that are taking place of other regions other than this? is this an isolated case for right now. >> so let me just, if you don't mind, let me reiterate that it's 7, 8, 9, 10. region 11 is actually the national regional, d.c. >> oh, i see. >> as far as the ongoing investigations, i think it's better if the inspector general speaks to that. >> okay. that's fine. >> senator, yes, there are ongoing investigations. some involving other regions. >> okay. and were the

. >> i see why mr. neely is not with us today and the only pictures i can get of him are him in the hot tub suite. >> a news release. big government doesn't work. it doesn't work. what do we do instead of the gsa? there is a lot of abuse in the gsa. a lot of abuse of other government agencies throughout the government. eight the money spent in las vegas by gsa should be a farewell party. thank you. >> congressman john mica, chairman of the transportation and infrastructure committee joins us. good evening. >> good to be with you. >> greta: thought of systemically pulling apart of gsa we'd all like to get rid of gsa but that is impractical since someone has to run the physical structure of the government. >> this running all of our property that people own. how many people listening would turn over their property for the management by the federal government? i don't think many. what mr. denham and i discussed is maybe taking apart gsa. they are on billions of asset and losing money and billions every year with

mr. neely and those who planned the conference knowingly defrauded the american people so they could throw a party on someone else's credit card. this is unacceptable. we demand that those individuals -- we must demand that those individuals be held accountable for their actions. this i believe is just the tip of the iceberg, and i hope the committee conducts additional oversight hearings on the excessive gsa spending. madam chairman, thank you so very much for holding the hearing. i look forward to hearing from the witnesses and more from them in the future. >> thank you so much, senator. senator boozman. >> in the interests of time, i'd just like to associate myself with the remarks of my colleagues. i appreciate your leadership and senator inhofe's leadership. we have our differences in the committee, but i think this is something that we're all united on and going forward and finding out exactly what's happened and you know, punish those that were at fault, and also put in the safeguards so