mr. newell and mr. met man you thought that the case was ready for indictment in august of 2010 and after that. did you start using seizure warrants? >> we started doing that i believe in september of 2010 in an effort to seize firearms as we were waiting for an indictment. >> cease-fire civilly. >> so once you thought the case had been made, then he started to try to take extra actions to make sure that the weapons didn't get beyond a certain point? when would you exercise the seizure in relation to this whole trafficking activity going on? >> i thank you for the question. during the summer of 2010, we finally convinced certain individuals in the judiciary that we had a very strong -- we believe we had a very strong it will -- ability or theory on being able to seize firearms civilly and we got that approved in september of 2010. >> this problem with the u.s. attorney's office in phoenix and the like of time between when people in the field thought they had the case made, is that a problem that exists

mr. newell and mr. mcmahon, and you didn't hear any of their frustrations. they testified that they reported this to their supervisors and nothing happened data that is why they were so frustrated. so i think we've got to figure out what happens when someone reports something they feel is illegal, wrong, dangerous or harmful to life. and i'm not just talking about what happened in fast and furious. i'm talking about going forward. agents on the ground who think someone should be arrested and they are being told not to make an arrest or when they're being told not to make a surveillance and the supervisor says don't do it and they say we should do it and they are complaining to someone else, that information has got to go up the line in order to have the proper law enforcement and proper protection for our citizens. so i ask anyone on the panel to comment, but i think this is a very serious, very serious blockade or serious problem if people who feel something wrong and harmful to the safety of americans or to mexicans is taking place, then someone should be

mr. newell and mr.mcmahon. >> we were asked earlier and what degree the demand would be helpful for us, yes. >> is there any other tool that this congress could give the would help you save lives? we are all for the second amendment of a lawful person to own a gun, but for a criminal and a drug cartel to have easy access, i think the number was 40,000 deaths -- >> the time is expired. is there a question? >> i just want to know if there's other tools we can give you that would help you combat on the front line the illegal sale of guns that is leading to the violence from the border. >> i testified before congress and number of times, and it is not my place to ask -- i know we will do what we can with the resources and the laws that this congress provides less. >> with that we now go to the gentleman from pennsylvania. and this is the second round, folks. >> thank you, mr. chairman. mr. newell, i am still sort of struggling to find out who knew what and when in the form of the not only the formulation of

mr. newell and mr.on to be we are trying to get to the bottom of this. we can be going bring around the rosie forever. what was the purpose of this operation to the best of your knowledge, special agent newell, and then yours, mr. mcmahon? >> thank you for the question. the purpose of this investigation was to identify and disrupt and dismantle an entire organization that was linked the mexican drug cartel. that was the purpose. and to do so, we needed an extraordinary work on the part of the agent to achieve that goal. >> but it wasn't to let the guns of -- is that correct? >> no, sir, as i said in my statement, one of the things that frustrates me to some extent is that relief and at no time in our strategy was it to allow guns to be taken to mexico, no. >> i don't know if you heard the special agent, but he was almost in tears and very frustrated because he felt that all of this went against the very things that he stands for and these other agents stand for and with that i would like you to answer m

mr. newell and mr. mcmahon to be we are trying to get to the bottom of this.e can be going bring around the rosie forever. what was the purpose of this operation to the best of your knowledge, special agent newell, and then yours, mr. mcmahon? >> thank you for the question. the purpose of this investigation was to identify and disrupt and dismantle an entire organization that was linked the mexican drug cartel. that was the purpose. and to do so, we needed an extraordinary work on the part of the agent to achieve that goal. >> but it wasn't to let the guns of -- is that correct? >> no, sir, as i said in my statement, one of the things that frustrates me to some extent is that relief and at no time in our strategy was it to allow guns to be taken to mexico, no. >> i don't know if you heard the special agent, but he was almost in tears and very frustrated because he felt that all of this went against the very things that he stands for and these other agents stand for and with that i would like you to answer my question. >> without objection. >> i totally agree w