mr. ornstein. did nothing but prop up state, county, and municipal unions that private business cannot compete with the government on wages and benefits, plus the debt went way too high because of that. my solution is let the bush tax cuts expire for everyone, all tax ranges. i agreed with the auto bailout. i could sort this guy out. you guys are so partisan, we'll never get anything done and i really think you're full of bologna. >> i'm not sure where to take that one. one thing i would say, if you look at what's happened with job growth over the last two years, it's been stroernger. private sector has been robust, especially coming out of recession caused by enormous amounts of debt. the problem has been in the public sector. while the stimulus did provide money for the state and local budgets, had to because of the budget amendments, go against the cycle of politics and economics and slashed their budget. so we kept teachers and firefighters and policeman in the workforce. there has still been a

mr. ornstein, do you want to take anything from that? >> sure. a couple of points. one is we do know as we parse out what's causing the debt problem ahead and what's gotten us the mess we're in now where we move from projected $5.6 in surpluses in 2000 to now projections of huge debt down the road, that the tax cuts of 2001 and 2003 were the single greatest cause. two wars cost trls unpaid for have come right behind. the stimulus and programs in the last couple years were temporary and now begun to fade out of any long-term projection from that cost. that gets back to the point tom made about the need for revenues. on defense, joe has a point. it's a point, that of course, they took up with the debt limit agreement that we reached the last time. it's why half the sequesters, hit and hit hard. the reason appropriations october punted until december, even though they agreed on the deal, half from discretionary domestic spending and half from defense, $1.2 trillion over the years, republicans are saying we're going to protect every dime of defense, that's what's in the

mr. ornstein? guest: share.hat has gotten us into the mess that we are in now where we move from a projected $5.6 trillion in surplus is to huge debt was the tax cuts in 2001, and 2003, were the biggest cause, and the wars, right behind. the stimulus was temporary and has begun to fade out of long- term projections from those costs. that gets back to the point that tom made on the need for revenue. on defense, joe has a point, and it is why half of the sequesters hit the fence pretty hard. the reason we will have a confrontation over appropriations in october, and probably until december is that even though there was agreement on this deal, half coming from discretionary spending and half from defense, republicans now say we will protect every dime of defense, as that is what is in the right and budget, and then we will take that additional amount in more of a discretionary domestic spending. every group from bowles-simpson, to the gang of six, has said we are not going to solve the debt problem, as we do someth

mr. norm ornstein. >> guest: let me just go back. this is not a public auction or a government mandate it is basically fine if you don't get health insurance. we now had a couple of studies in massachusetts where we had the romney plan that initially hemorrhaged a lot of money because it did include cost controls. they sharply reduce their cost and they had 2% of the people in massachusetts uninsured. there is widespread public satisfaction with it. i'm not at all sure you could make a strong case that this is a bad idea, even if it is an unpopular one. >> host: and about what to do as far as going forth? >> guest: half of our book is about what not to do. bad things like term limits and a balanced budget constitutional level at the federal level. or a third party. but a lot of things that involve changing in the voting system, we have talked about expanding the electorate. we have talked about weekend voting. we talk about changes inside the congress itself. we talk about ways of altering the election system and making sure that we

mr. chairman. colleagues, two of the prominent scholars 6 congress and politics thomas mann and norm ornstein recently completed a long research effort, and they determined that the republican party has become ideologically extreme, contemptuous of social and economic policy, scornful of compromise and unpersuaded by conventional understanding of facts, evidence and science, and they said that when one party moves this far from the mainstream, it makes it nearly impossible for the political system to deal could e deal con with the nation's challenges, and the republican budget is a perfect example of that. the republican budget shields special interests from participating in deficit reduction, and instead what do they propose? end medicare as we know it, and targeting our america's children and older neighbors and middle class families for the overwhelming burden of deficit reduction. if a political party wanted to undermine the health and economic security of millions of american family, well, this is the way to do it. and the only conclusion we can draw here is that driven by an ideology far outside

senate or certainly when you're in the senate you realize that these scholars, mann and ornstein are absolutely right. mr. president, in this congress the 112th congress we've already seen 48 republican filibusters. 48 times the republicans stopped us from doing our work here. but don't get the impression this was new behavior. because it didn't just start in the 112th congress, it started way before. in the 111th congress which covered 2009 and 2010, republicans conducted 91 filibusters, and in the 110th congress, 2007 and 2008, they conducted 112 filibusters. so so far this year we've had 48 republican filibusters, in the congress before that we had 91, and the one before that we had 112. mr. president, what companies does it mean? -- what does it mean? it means that in all those times, all those times, we were unable to do the work of the american people. because one party stopped it. there have been more filibusters by the republicans in the six years since the democrats took over the senate than there were in the prior ten years. and i want to remember one of those times because i was sitting down t