mr. papadopolous is talking about only happened on the 30th at 10:00 p.m. that's when i received the e-mail. we had been negotiating on a document that i still believe is unlawful. last night at 8:00, i got an e-mail from the executive director of meta, luis granados, who -- that -- it says here bo, at 8:00, do not contact us again. i am asking for a system to no longer accept your e-mails. so contrary to what mr. papadopolous is saying, i don't think they've acted in approximate good faith, and i think that the commission should listen to mr. christiansen, his analysis is spot on. it's also lawful and what meta is requesting is -- is really to hold up my project for their larger grievances. >> president hillis: all right. this closes this portion of the hearing. we'll open it up to commissioner comments and questions. commissioner richards? >> vice president richards: so we're getting two opposing stories here: good faith, not so good faith, sign the mou now, no, don't sign the mou now. i don't think we can make a decision here based on an agreement being

papadopolous and the others, carter page, even more peripheral, who is intimately knowledgeable about the campaign itself. >> if you just read the indictments and take those allegations as true, you can see that mr. gates has a ton of information on mr. manafort, at least. one thing i think is worth explaining, andrea, it looks like he's pleading guilty to two separate counts, each count carries a maximum statutory penalty of five years. >> they could be concurrent, though. >> they could. in theory, he has ten years of exposure. but in reality, sentences are determined not by the statutory max, but by the sentencing guidelines. so what prosecutors routinely do is have someone plead to enough counts with enough statutory time that if everything goes bad and they don't cooperate and they lie and they mislead, you can still give them a large, or recommend a large sentence at the end. but if they cooperate and with no criminal history, they have a relatively small sentencing guideline exposure. that's all you need. that's all you need here. >> the carrot and stick approach. there's a very big carrot there, if you like carrots. >> there's a big carrot and a big stick, but this is a well formulated pl