mr. paul dacre in 2011.a and also on the first of december on 2011. 06586, the first is the phone call, the second one would've heen a meeting. t >> could you say those twoas again? dece >> the 21st of november and the >>rd of december last year. >> oh, yes.e ab in regards to what might've been discussed on a particularink occasion. >> i can. on the first of november, i wase pitching an article to the daily mail, about the conference speech i gave about responsible capitalism. and how we change the way our economy is run, the article i believ appearing, and the [inaudible] -- and where labor stands.ce. that i believe was at his office.e >> have you had discussions with editors about the issues which n concern thisq inquiry? >> yes, those discussions may be private and confidential. it is a general message that you emerges from what they say, in which you could help us with? .. on i had would have been at the time of last summer, really, with the editors. i think i had -- i had lunch with mr. dacre you maybe

paul dacre. do you see that? are we to deduce that that was a one on one occasion, or not? >> i can't read number, although most of my dinners are times i met mr. dacre he would usually have within his political editor, one of his lead writers, maybe a columnist. so they were almost like editorial boards. they weren't a full editorial board but he would get a selection of people from the newspaper, and then he would allow them to pick up the conversation, ask me things and the like. there were a couple of occasions when i had social encounters with mr. dacre, but normally that is how he would meet with me. >> now, these are sort of semi structured occasions. would they be regarded as off the record, or not? >> well, they were regarded as off the record, although, you know, i've always taken the view that you should be careful to say things off the record that you would want to see on the record. and certainly if there's a group of people, there is a bit of, they had safety in numbers. >> i'm not quite sure you can do. i think you mean you're careful to say not to say things off the record, that you wouldn't be prepared to see on the record. >>